On Liking Twilight
Okay, briefly, because I'm trying to do NaNoWriMo:
The Washington Post* has published a story that basically argues that enjoying Twilight, like getting your period, is just an unfortunate fact of womanhood. (The piece also argues, albeit subtly, that women are weak-will creatures who will cannot help but give in to their lesser, shameful urges.)
And I just want to say: I am a man. I am a reasonably intelligent, well-educated adult man, and I think Twilight is insanely fun to read. Of course, I am glad we do not actually live in a world where it is socially acceptable for 107-year-old pedophiles** to have romantic relationships with high-school students, and I think Edward and Bella's relationship too often confuses obsession with love. But the books are fun and sexy and incredibly engrossing, and you don't have to be a woman (or ashamed!) to know that.
And I have not arrived at that conclusion because I have become light-headed in my oh-so-tight corset. I am a dude. I like sports.***
Nor am I embarrassed to admit that Edward is a well-drawn idealized other. (You don't have to be attracted to individuals who share his genitalia to recognize that; in fact, if you change Edward's name and gave him slightly larger pecs, he'd have a lot in common with some of my more celebrated ex-girlfriends.)
There are books that teach us something about the world in which we find ourselves, and then there are books that help us to escape for a few hours the crushing pain of humanness. To deny that these books have value is to deny the reality of suffering (or, to argue, as the WaPo story seems to, that suffering is limited to young and/or uneducated people).
* The Washington Post was a newspaper. Newspapers were these paper-based ways of distributing information.
** Which Edward is, make no mistake about it. The reason it's wrong for old people to have sexual relationships with children is not because we old people LOOK old. It's because we ARE old.
*** I particularly like soccer, and off topic, but I am so disappointed to see a great match between France and Ireland end with a flagrant handball, and while I'm disappointed in Thierry Henry for failing to tell the ref he cheated, it seems to me that the bigger problem is that no one in soccer ever owns up to violating the rules unless s/he is caught. It's as if a rules violation isn't a rules violation unless an official notices it.
posted by John Green @ Thursday, November 19, 2009
99 Comments
99 Comments:
Well said! (I now find you and your awesome Jimmy Neutron puff more awesome than ever before by the way!)
here here John! I love it when a man openly admits he enjoys the novels. They are pure escapist fun!
An aside, last week while watching the Jeopardy Teen Tourn.- it was a boy that knew all the answers. Of course he looked ashamed while answering. lol.
John Green, you make me smile.
Just, thank you. And paper news? What is that?
That's not the impression I got from the article, although I can see how you would draw that conclusion. Because as far as I can tell, the article basically described my experience with Twilight. You resist, and you resist and you resist because there is something about the screaming that just grates the nerves. But in the end you can't resist anymore, and you realize that they are engrossing and they do have something good and interesting to say about messy love stories and being 17. From what I understood in the article it was less about women who are ashamed of reading Twilight, and more about women who realize they don't have to be.
While I did read the books and admittedly did enjoy the secondary characters, something has got to be said about the portrayal of a healthy relationship: mainly that they really weren't (healthy that is.)
But I don't see many people actually debate these points, instead they go on flame wars about a story that's been told a thousand times. Kudos John, kudos.
I love that you find Twilight insanely fun to read. I do too.
Rayne: I agree that Edward and Bella's relationship is unhealthy. Which doesn't trouble me in and of itself; what bothers me is the extent to which their unhealthy relationship is celebrated (in the novels, sure, but also in the discourse among teenagers *about* the novels).
But Twilight did not invent the relational dynamics it reflects. It may reinforce them, but the response to that (imho) shouldn't be, "Don't read these books!" It should be, "These books are fun to read. But in real life, we shouldn't mistake obsession for love."
I don't mind Twilight, but I don't like the age group it's aimed towards. I feel like it takes a certain amount of maturity NOT to read too far into it and far too many 13 year old girls want their own personal Edward Cullen. (Who is an obsessed, hypocritical, somewhat melodramatic CREEPER. Oh, and as you said, a pedophile.)
It's cool that you're willing to admit to liking it, though. =)
I was always convinced that it is ok for me to like the twilight series, while at the same time knowing that they are not good literature. like it is ok to eat chocolate or maybe a hamburger, while at the ame time knowing it is not good for your health...
John, I'm pretty sure you're the core of awesome.
*cheers*
I agree. With everything. I also find Twilight very, very enjoyable to read, whilst realising that looking to it for moral guidance would not be a particularly good idea. And I also thought the article was pretty insulting and over-generalising (is that a word?).
However, I think one point you are missing is that, whilst the way in which rules are treated in football IS a big problem, you have to remember that Thierry Henry is a prat, EVEN for a footballer.
John Green is offically my hero! When I read the first paragraph of this post I got extreemly angry. Because, yes I do enjoy Twilight. But I enjoy other amazing books too (Alaska is one of my favoruites) And it hits a nerve when people say that the only people that enjoy Twilight are 12 year- old crazed girls, who are too dumb to read anything else (I've heard several people discribe it this way) And that couldn't be father from the truth. Yes, there are people like that but there are alot more that enjoy Twilight who are extreemly intellegent. I've all so noticed that for some people Twilight was the fist book they read. And now they're almost a big of bookworms that I am. Thank you for posting this John.
I think most of us dislike the books not because of their content, but because of their effects. Sure, they might be enjoyable to read despite the mindblowingly juvenile style in which they're written, but they seem to have given people everywhere—who may not notice or appreciate the fact that it's entirely unrealistic in every way—a set of unreasonable expectations.
The relentless marketing campaigns for the movies don't help, either.
What am I then, Washington Post, a duck? Or a man? I'd prefer to be a duck.
One of the guys at work here read the first book and actually liked it. My sister's best friend's husband (what?) has read the books and loves them.
I adore the Twilight books. I'm going to see New Moon tomorrow (wish I could see the midnight showing :P) and I want to re-read them soon because they ARE a great escape. The biggest reason why I read anything is because it's entertaining. And the Twilight series really does it for me.
Make no mistake, Edward is not a pedophile. Bella is under the legal age of consent in some states (though not Washington, where it takes place, and where the age of consent is 16) but she's not a prepubescent child.
The word for what Edward is is an ephebophile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia
Hey guess what Washington Post? I'm not amused. I have a mentrual cycle and I'm not a fan of Twilight.
While the story is enjoyable I can't help but feel that Edward is a creep and Bella is a Mary Sue. Stephenie Meyer seems like a very nice person but the story never struck a chord beyond surface level.
-Madison
I agree with this blog post completely.
I felt like the entire world (save preteen girls) went from loving twilight to sudden irrational twilight hate, mostly to save face as the popular book suddenly became the hot topic of the literary world.
They're still the same fun books to read, even if Breaking Dawn was terrible in a lot of ways and you can buy Edward Cullen body glitter in stores.
john, you're awesome and all - and i wholly respect your opinion.
but i still wont touch twilight with a 10 foot pole.
i already get enough female teen angst from my sister.
Ha, I remember watching the Jeopardy Tourn. too. It was kind of hilarious. The dude looked so ashamed to know the answers!
I think all the people who go absolutely insane over it cause people who simply like it to like it a lot less. Who wants to be tagged as a screaming, crazy fan?
I agree with you. Twilight is a lot of fun.
Work it John Green! I admit to liking Twilight and people give me this look like I'm going to turn into a crazed Twihard. Admittedly, it's like pop culture junk food, but I totally love it :D Way to stand up for those of us who enjoy something that has a bit of a negative stigma and don't fit into the crazed demographic.
You're very accurate. I'm a guy and I haven't read that fast in years. I actually finished all 4 books in a week (while working full-time) and I loved it.
Admittedly, I gave them away as soon as I was finished because I will never re-read them, but they were insanely fun to read.
I am, however, "attracted to individuals who share his genitalia" and don't like sports, so maybe I don't count.
John, THANK YOU for the Ireland comment. The public outcry here is insane!
If Twilight didn't have some value, I'd seriously be concerned with the attention it's garnered. However, I believe that its anti-feminism and inability to discern between (as you said) obsession and love outweigh its merit as a well-written romance.
And while I don't think to assume teenagers so uncomplicated as to blindly and wholly follow any and all aspects of a trend, I do think Twilight dangerously champions a heroine that believes the only way she can truly be happy in love is to change herself at her very core (turning into a vampire.)
Twilight's flaw, in my opinion, doesn't rest with the shame associated with liking something popular, but with its characterization of something pretty much everyone is always troubled with - love.
Exactly! One of my friends is always talking about how much she hates Twilight, and I just tell her, "Listen. I like Twilight. I don't think they're particularly well-written, nor do they compare to Harry Potter in the slightest, but they're FUN."
I'm glad you admit to liking Twilight despite your male-ness. We need more John Greens in this world. :) DFTBA.
P.S. Newspaper? Huh? ;)
P.P.S. My nickname for Edward? Pedward. Get it? Pedophile+Edward=Pedward.
But did you like the movie? I haven't read the books, but the movie was one of the most ridiculous things I have seen in a while.
I first found a copy of Twilight in my local library ywo years ago. I knew nothing about it, but I thought it was a fun read. Then a couple of months later one of my firends started talking about Twilight the way the the serotypical Twilightfan talks about it. She showed me some fansites, and after a couple of weeks, I became a very dedicated twiheart. But after reading a bit to many Twilight hate blogs, that awfull movie, and a bit to many girls calling Edward God/"my future housband", I got sik of it. So goddamn sick.
The hype ruiend the books for me. Something I never thought possible for me. It used to be harmless fun. Why do people feel the need to take silly books, and force some sort of meaning on to them?
So does this mean I don't have to feel mortified every time I pick up a new Sookie Stackhouse novel from the library?
(the librarians are judging me, I can see it in their eyes! ;)
I don't see why people are so concerned about what others are thinking about them in the first place. If you want to read it, read it. If you like Twilight, admit it. Nothing bad is going to happen. No one is going to tell you can't read it or you can't like it.
Then again, I was never one for peer pressure, so maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about?
Oh, and thank you for updating. I love your blog. :)
Now I haven't actually read the series so I can't comment on the content, so I'm going to have to focus on another aspect of this post: Edward shares his genitalia with people?!?!? O_o
Sorry, it had to be done :)
On a more serious note: yay for standing up for enjoying books simply because they are fun!!!
Now I haven't actually read the series so I can't comment on the content, so I'm going to have to focus on another aspect of this post: Edward shares his genitalia with people?!?!? O_o
Sorry, it had to be done :)
On a more serious note: yay for standing up for enjoying books simply because they are fun!!!
I am of the mind set that if there is something to get people into reading I am all there. I am not the biggest fan of Twilight. I do agree about the idealizing and the obsession angle but I do think they are worthy literature. They express a point of view in a way that is entertaining and captiving. Do I love Edward? He seems fine but please give me Neville any other day of the week.
I loved the post though. I am questioning why when I start Twilight I can not seem to finish it. I know I should be absorbed but I am not completely. Something holds me back. I do not know what it is yet and it is starting to annoy me. Any thoughts on what it could be?
I think technically Edward would be a hebophile because Bella is a post-pubescent adolescent. On the creeper meter it still rates an "ick" - immortal or not.
Good for you! As usual, you do an excellent job of putting my own opinions into words. Thanks.
I'll have to check out the article and see what I think of it.
And, wait...you're doing NaNoWriMo?? I thought you said you'd never do that? I love it! I can't wait to see what comes out of it for you. Isn't it a blast? Hope you're having fun with it...
Rock on. I am male and adored reading the books. I heard people talking about New Moon today and how bad it's gonna be, and then moving on to the books and how badly they're written. At this point it's just like it's so easy to make fun of it, and the amount of people who feel the need to express their negative opinion correlates directly with its popularity. Which is retarded.
On a related note, I was Edward Cullen for Halloween. There were, like, four or five different levels of humor in this-one was that I was an emotionally abusive pedophile vampire that all the thirteen year old girls are in love with; another was that it was the most half-assed costume ever. I just spiked my hair and put glitter on my face.
I don’t think that the author of this article is completely right; reading Twilight shouldn’t be something that you’re necessarily ashamed of but obsessing over it is obviously not right. The problem is that I think that some people can handle its sensuality, but for young people, it might not be appropriate. The problem is that there are too many young people (and when I say young, I mean like elementary school kids) who are reading this stuff and probably shouldn’t be. For young girls, Twilight can be, and I hate to say this but, it can be emotional pornography because it gets them thinking about sex and they will find themselves longing for Bella and Edward be together sexually and also wanting the same thing for themselves. They will simply want an Edward. But the thing is that Edward is not real. He does not exist. But there is something in all of us women who are wishing and waiting for our Edward to drive up in his silver Volvo and drive off into the sunset. I, however, understand why women would want such a companion but I think Edward is unmistakably creepy and stalkerish. But, most women (especially impressionable, young girls) feel very differently. I don’t think that many young people should read Twilight because they are simply not strong enough to hold up against the emotion and sensuality. Preteen girls are very emotional, I would know because I was definitely one of them. I’m very glad I didn’t read Twilight when I was younger because I would let my emotions take over me, like any preteen girl would. And even though there aren’t any actual sex scenes, it’s still very sensual and would, therefore, be inappropriate for me to read as a young person. Now, I know that I can only speak for myself, and maybe I’m wrong and that’s very, very possible, but if I had kids, I probably wouldn’t let them read it until they were more mature. But I that’s just my conviction and if you disagree, that’s your own opinion and I definitely respect and appreciate that. Don’t get me wrong, I think Twilight is fun and entertaining but it pretty much ends there. (Oh, and I do consider Twilight to be anti-feminist. Woman shouldn't base their life's worth on the guy they're dating [or not dating, rather]. It's just sad, really. Oh well.)
Well said!
I assume you have tickets to see New Moon at midnight? Would make a great vlog. ;)
While I wholeheartedly agree that people should not make other people feel ashamed for what liking things they like, I am slightly worried about the support for "Twilight".
There are so many aspects of that book that any respectable person should take issue with. Firstly, the whole relationship, the sacrifices Bella has to make and the fact that Edward has to make very few. Secondly the the ideas of inequality that permeate the whole series, for example that Leah is less of a woman because she cannot have children is ridiculous. Ideas like this which go unnoticed and unquestioned at the time are what's worrying about the book.
There are so many books to talk about other than "Twilight", this community is such a wonderful platform for you, John, to share your love for books; but instead you chose to support a book that I would have thought you would morally object to.
(The captcha code for this post is "bried" a mix, I suppose, of "bored" and "suprized")
I agree with on so many levels, I love to read and while reading literture that really makes you think is good for the soul, every once in a while you need some pulp fiction to just escape for a little and Twilight is one of thoose books.
One of the reasons adolecent girls love Twilight so much is that Bella is them in some way, the way Stephanie wrote her makes her feel like an extention of yourself which makes the excapist feel of the books even more real.
you are so awesome it isn't fair. haha.
seriously thank you for this post. i so agree and it's nice to see a "a reasonably intelligent, well-educated adult man" take a stand. ;D
Great blog, John! Thanks for saying all this; I agree very much. It's not that the books are horrible, for what they are. Just the way many people have responded to the series is not at all a good thing.
I'm 16, and it is mind boggling to me, how much stock people my age put in these books. And not just girls, but boys too. They really, truly expect relationships to be like they are in Twilight.
This is disturbing to me, mostly because I feel like Bella is not at all a strong female character. I feel like these books are telling girls they should be more like Bella, and it's telling boys that they should look for girls who are more like Bella. Girls they can manipulate and control, girls who are so weak that they constantly need a man to protect them. Not exactly a great message to send to young people, regardless of gender.
Again, it's not that the books are specifically sending this message, but people take these books way too seriously, and that's the message they receive.
The books are fun to read. (Even I will admit that, and I kind of hate them with a passion. :P ) But it's not a good thing that so many young people TRUST in these books so much. As you said, they mistake these books for something that will teach us about people and the world. When all they are, and all they were ever meant to be, is escapism.
Sorry for the super long comment! :)
I'm annoyed any time my having a vagina is listed as a reason for me liking (or not liking) something.
Really?
A few times in the article they talk about "the people" who haven't read it, but when talking about people that enjoyed it?
Always "women".
Coupled with the following quote, it's just a painfully annoying article to read:
"This self-awareness is what makes the experience of loving "
"Twilight" a conflicting one, as if they had all been taught proper skin-care routines but chose instead to rub their faces with a big pizza every night. "
John, you always have a way of saying the same thing I've already said to many people, but much more eloquently and intelligently.
I've been telling my students and my friends that Twilight is so good because it's so very bad. I personally do not go gaga over Edward, but I can see why many women and girls would feel that way.
I personally find Harry Potter (as a guy, not a book) much more appealing than Edward. I have a piece of flair on my Facebook page that says, "I'd choose Harry over Edward any day." :o)
I really liked this blog! I completely agree. I can admit that the way she writes isn't amazing and may be bothersome at times, but that doesn't mean the book deserves the hatred it gets. I am always hearing guys going on about how crappy and ridiculous and "gay" it is- which is probably just coming from their own insecurity. They wouldn't even have that opinion if it weren't for the love it receives from so many girls. It's sort of irrational! But I guess it's natural...it's just sad that they have to insult a novel because of it!
I love how honest you are with your writing, even your blogs are amazing! Your ideas always make me go, "YES!!" Maybe not so enthusiastically.
Except for with Alaska, I'm totally enthusiastic about Alaska, it's my favorite book and if I could someday get it signed by you it would make me so happy.
I can't wait until Will Grayson, Will Grayson. David Levithan is great as well. Sorry if this admiration confession is creepy. I swear I'm not creepy!! It's just that Looking for Alaska meant a lot to me and it changed me and you have no idea how thankful I was about the email. I couldn't believe it. You probably don't remember, but I sent a long email last April or so about my thoughts on it and I asked about why the characters found a sense of purity in mourning and your reply not only made my day but made my year, basically.
And this is me trying not to be creepy *face on palm* When I get into a ramble, this is what happens.
Thank you for being so awesome, Dzon Grin
P.S...lol to the person who compared your former puff to Jimmy Neutron's
THANK YOU!!! Everyone criticizes people who like twilight just because they don't like or because they assume you are all lovey-dovey and dumb, but one can like it just for the fun of it and that doesn't make us dumb or stupid.
So, thank you John, you keep being AWESOME!
Thank you John, for articulating so well what I've been trying to say for the past year.
Agreed with what you wrote John. The wrongness (Is that a word?) of the article goes both ways. I am a lady type person full of wonderful womanhood and I can resist Twilight. And I also like to think I'm a strong-willed creature who's good at avoiding shameful urges.
(Slight anger here directed at WaPo, not John.)
I agree that anyone can find some sort of enjoyment out of the novels.
For me, they provide a wonderfully large amount of humor. That's still good, right?
Thank you, John! It's so hard to explain to people that although I ENJOY Twilight, I do not think it is real literature. People my age seem to think that you're either obsessed with it or you hate it. Finally, you have put it into words for me.
You make me laugh. :)
I so want to point out the many arguments against the books, and the reasons why some of them are wrong. (possessive? They're fake beings, extraordinarily strong etc, and hanging out with a human.)
But I won't, because it would be a blogpost in and of itself. I'm just glad a well known, wonderful author such as yourself, John, can take a stand for escapism, fun reads. I've heard from too many fellow aspiring writers how they hate S.Meyers, her books, and everything to do with Twilight, even if they hadn't read them. (not a good move for writers wanting to get into the publishing world, imho)
Personally, I can't stand Twihards. It ruins the fun, with all the violence on who gets to be first in line to scream and sob at RPattz and hoping he'll want to date a hysterical tween. Or a woman who could be his mother. I will be going to see New Moon, but after opening weekend. I won't be able to hear a single line of dialogue whenever on of the boys gets on screen. Obsession over a boy/girl isn't healthy, but neither is it good with a fictional character, or the actor who simply portrays him/her. Frankly, they all just need to take a chill pill. Great books, but this weird cultish thing is better suited to awesome things that can stand a million years of scrutiny. Like Star Wars.
I do agree to an extent with some commenters - these books could present an unrealistic standard for impressionable teens to want to emulate, and it does take a well centered girl to see that. I've seen one too many FML's (Fmylife) where a guy is dumped because his girlfriend wants to find her Edward. Seriously.
As for the writing... S.Meyer said herself in an Oprah video (not on the show, behind the scenes I guess. Don't remember the link oops) that she wish she could go back and rewrite the Twilight series, that she's grown so much of a writer. I think she gets it that it's not her best work, she her most popular.
And for the Twilight haters- don't discount all her work based on the crazy Twilight fandom. Her adult novel, The Host, is freaking awesome.
Stephenie Meyer is an awesome writer. There is something about Twilight that is engaging and engrossing in a can't-put-down sort of way. I read Twilight awhile before it became popstar famous. The series got progressively worse with every single book, and I tell my friends to read Twilight and maybe New Moon, then ignore the rest of the series.
I loved the Host. An interesting take on aliens, and interesting to have a female MC who is NOT confident and strong from the get-go, and never really becomes completely confident, because that's not her personality type. Why are all heroines supposed to be fearless and gutsy?
What gets me is that no one even TALKS about The Host. Stupid popstar twilight overshadowing everything.
I think that JoeFriedls's comment really summed it up best - it's not the books themselves, but the effects they have on young girls. Many girls as young as twelve, who have no idea what relationships are truly about, pick up these books and get a very unrealistic and potentially harmful view of love and romance. I could point out the many ways that Twilight is harmful, but most have already been said in a much more eloquent way than I could manage.
The other reason people are really starting to despise this franchise is because of the fans. There are girls out there who viciously try to convince others that Twilight is God's gift to literature. Scary.
I totally agree with you John, Twilight is escapis, I wasn't ashaed that I liked the books at all.... until every one of my flatates ade fun of me for over 3 weeks over the, then I got a ittle ashamed... Then they made fun of my love of the Harry Potter series and I decided that we could no longer speak to eachother and their opinion's didn't matter. I like the books... thats the end of it, its my opinion and I refuse to be ashamed.
But the real reason I commented was because of the football talk. HERNY is SUCH a Prat.... this is so indicitive of football though (soccer for you americans)fouls, even blatent ones are always ignored uness their is a call, there is no honor amoungst footballers, just look at how anyone reacts to getting knowcked down. Harden up, Footballl, you are a beautiful sport, but you need to stop attracting such showmen!
Hi,
I like this article but..
last night i went to the midnight premiere of harry potter and the half blood prince! I was honestly so disappointed! was it just me or did it seem very choppy and for some reason didn't feel like it was a harry potter movie. Don't get me wrong some of the parts in it were either really funny or somewhat scary but i really was not satisfied. I don't know, what did you think?? Am i wrong? Give me your opinions..
John Green. Have I told you how awesome you are? - Well you are. Now I have.
I love the twilight, I think it rocks!
Im a girl... But i know lots (Okay, like 2½) boys/guys who read twilight.
it's a shame that some guys think it's "girly" to read the twilight saga. I think its great that you wrote this! :)
I love that you own your pleasure in these books, John, and I have no objection to people reading them--in fact, I'm glad that "people" are reading them instead of just "girls and women." But, as others (including you) have said, their anti-feminism is disturbing. And, I suspect that it's exactly their anti-feminism (and their nostalgia for some kind of golden age that never existed) that makes them so popular, and I find that pretty disturbing, too.
So, yes, read them--but then discuss them, think about them, argue about them! Which is why I like your blog so much--it gives people a place to do all those things.
I'm confused by your turn of attitude. In previous posts you've called Edward an asshat and politely taken SM to task for creating a "perfect" character without prompting teens to question that perfection. And now you are doing a 180 and calling the books "fun, and sexy?"
I think I like you better when you don't have an opinion on other people's work, since your opinion seems to change depending how the wind blows.
(and no, I'm not an irate SM fan).
Evangeline: Librarians don't judge. We're so glad to see people reading actual print books that we don't really care what their preferences are. And, like everyone else, we enjoy good escapist reading. Twilight, a predictable mystery series, a bodice ripper...they are all good for the soul once in a while.
re. anonymous "Hey guess what Washington Post..."
THANK YOU!! Although I did read them, and enjoyed them during the hours i spent reading them, I put them down and felt something along the lines of 'I'm kind of glad I don't have to do that again...'
i saw the article as proof of gender eqality.
we men generally will concede that the female is the superior gender when it comes to matters of good manners and taste, but the fact is, if you like something, you should just enjoy it. whether its 80s teen movies (and don't tell me ferris bueller's day off doesn't have deep truths in it behind all the humour) -- or twilight.
if you like it, don't justify yourself, just enjoy it.
even if twilight does suck.
Amen and thanks. Seriously.
Regarding the Irish debacle, I would venture football is hardly the only sport where anything goes if you can get away with it.
In amateur sport era, it was a lot more of a big deal if the opposition thought you were being unsporting, since the guys who played, by and large, were playing for love of the game.
In these professional days, it's pretty much all about winning and results, no matter the cost, so there is more of an incentive for players to play dirty.
Escapist fun is fine, no matter your age or gender, but the young person in my household is understandably put off by the fact that "Edward is basically a stalker." (She is extremely, and understandably creeped out by his watching Bella sleep.) Combine that with his "hero" status, and I can see why the response is mixed.
I agree that there is nothing wrong with Escapism. Buffy and Firefly are escapism, The Hunger Games is escapism. There are hundreds of brilliant Science Fiction books that are escapism. Escapism is good and yes reading should be fun.
The problem with Twilight is not the escapism, the problem is the damage the message does in this world.
The article in the Washington post plays right into the hands of a misogynist male narrative that says that no matter how intelligent or strong women are, they will be attracted to a relationship that is essentially masochistic and will be attracted (whether they are ashamed of it or not) to possessive domineering men.
It is not "escapist fun" its quite horrible.
Also Twilight's audience did not write the Feminist books like the article claims. Twilight has a very young audience many of them (but not all before people jump) have little or no idea about gender politics and often react ignorantly and quite strongly against, whenever feminism get mentioned.
Thank you for that. My boyfriend actually argued with me 'cause he couldn't understand how a smart 23 year old could like the Twilight series. He said that I should at least admit it was a guilty pleasure. And you know what? I'll never label it as that. I just don't get why I should be ashamed of saying I like a book. Sure I know they're not the best books ever. But it doesn't mean they don't have a lot of great things about them.
THANK YOU! John, just thank you. All I hear from every direction is how naive it is to enjoy Twilight, I cannot tell you how much it means to me that you understand!
A question to all the Nerdfighters posting pro Twilight comments above:
Would Alaska Young include the Twilight books in her Life Library?
Would she find Edward (even just as a literary figure) attractive?
No, I don't think Alaska Young would like Twilight books, because she's much too busy smoking, drinking until she pukes, and having sex with her college-age boyfriend.
One could argue that college-age guys that screw high school girls are socially irresponsible and that the Alaska is being used royally and is too stupid to know that.
One could argue that a troubled girl who smokes and drinks and lies is not, in fact, someone to be admired, but is stagnet in their own life. In other words, Alaksa isn't facing any of her problems, only running from them.
Why is it that when a male character places obsessive attention on a female (Pudge and Alaska) it's somehow noble and important but when a female character does it (Bella and Edward) they are castigated for being weak?
At least Edward actually WANTS Bella as opposed to Pudge pursuing Alaksa who, you know, doesn't.
Boys have treated girls as sex objects since the beginning of time, but along comes the Twilight books where the power to choose between two hot boys is all in the girls hands, and somehow that's just too threatening for everyone to handle. The double standard puzzles me.
Do I think Bella/Edward have an ideal relationship? No. Do I think Bella should want something more than being a vamp? Yes. But to act like LFA is a standard that all other books should adhere to, is sort of odd. Pudge gets a bj from Lara -- who he does't even CARE about. He doesn't even like her, for god's sake, yet that gets glossed over. So, using girls for sex is okay? But Bella wanting to spend eternity with someone that LOVES HER BACK makes her a moron?
It's true, Edward is an ephebophile. Jacob, on the other hand, is a pedophile.
I just wanted to reply to one of the anonymous comments- the one comparing Twilight to LFA.
You have completely missed the point of Alaska's character and the novel in general. Not that everyone else has understood it perfectly, but you are definitely missing it. No one has insinuated that it is a "standard to adhere to". Just because the author of the book wrote a blog about Twilight (which by the way was FOR Twilight, not against it) you don't have to suddenly attack his novel as if he believes it to be the "standard to adhere to".
Novels are not written to describe a standard. Not even Twilight is supposed to describe a standard. That's ridiculous. That belief may be the source of why so many perfectly good books are mindlessly banned.
Pudge getting a senseless bj from Lara had the purpose of contrasting with a purely emotional scene that came afterwards- it was NOT to suggest that using girls for sex is okay. It wasn't even Pudge's idea in the first place, but that's irrelevant.
Edward's obsession with Bella is a LOT more extreme than Pudge's attachment to Alaska.
You cannot compare the fantasy-driven passion described in Twilight to the admiration that Pudge has for Alaska.
And what annoys me the most is that you think that Alaska is "stupid" because she smokes and drinks. I'm not even going to bother replying to that. I'm just going to say that if Alaska were a real person, she would beat your intelligence by a long shot.
Anonymous, obsessed by the smoking, drinking and sex you missed all the important things about Alaska.
Alaska does not drink because of peer pressure, Alaska drinks to die. Drinking to die is a very sad thing but the difference is very very big.
Alaska is a very powerful person. She is intelligent, she is passionate, she is courageous, she is also very hurt and too young to be able to use her power to deal with the pain.
Alaska Young is in many ways very real (if you work with young people its easy to identify the real Alaskas). Powerful young people often have very a difficult time when they are teenagers,lacking the experience to harness their power and use it for their own purposes they often attract all sorts of people that use it.
They see clearly all the things that are wrong (at school, at home, in the world) but being teenagers they are not in a position in society in which they can change things. Powerful people in powerless situations suffer.
Tragically Alaska did not make it trough, maybe she was too hurt, maybe just unlucky, but there are tens of thousands of Alaskas that read the book, and the book might help them a little bit at a difficult time in their lives, it might give them that extra little bit of strength and many of them will become awesome powerful beautiful adult women.
Bella, is just a shell.
I am not even getting started on the differences when it comes to the male characters of the book.
There are girls in this world that do not like the Twilight saga, and that is important too.
Twilight (only read the first book) just seemed so...immature. It reads almost like fan fiction. There's nothing wrong with the structure or plot, but the sentence-to-sentence writing is kind of unpleasant to read. Adjectives and adverbs come at you thick and fast throughout the entire novel, and the constant harping on Edward's physical appearance isn't just unhealthy for impressionable readers --it's annoying.
My problem with twilight isn't with the Cullen-crazy girls. Its people that when seeing you read it automatically think you are one of them. Being a 20-something guy I don't take that very well. The books were a good read. I like to read a teen/YA book between heavier reads for the same reason I watch "How I Met Your Mother" its just a very pleasing way to spend some time without thinking too hard. Its relaxing.
I agree with you on the comment about it being fun to read (i am afaid to say what i think next because all the twilight fans out there will hunt me down and KILL ME! TWILGHT FANS: THIS IS NOTHING AGAINST YOU!) The reason for it being so fun to read is because "Just because it uses a fancy adjective every other word doesnt make it good writing" http://bookstove.com/fantasy/why-i-hate-twilight/
I AM SORRY TO ALL TWILGIHT FANS OF WHOM I HAVE OFFEND.
I'm curious, John, did you go see New Moon this past weekend? If you did what were your reactions? Did you like it? If no, are you planning to see it?
twilight is really just a feel good book, but the problem with it is that too many young people take it seriously. I think that the problems start when that happens and twilight becomes the standard for them.
PS: I just read looking for alaska (the only one of your books that I found in Romania). I liked it a lot but: 1. Romanians don't have russian accents, we speak a latin language, so it would not be possible 2. Lara Buterskaya is not a Romanian name... not even Lara, let alone the last name, which is clearly slavic... we are not.
Thank you.
It can be hard sometimes (working in a library, half way through a master's degree)to own up to liking Twilight. "Oh, you just like Edward, right?"
Sure, Edward's fun, but I liked the book. I thought it was enjoyable. I thought it was amusing. It's not Of Mice and Men, but then again, it's not trying to be.
And Parents? When your (intelligent, interesting, and highly motivated) teen comes into the library and wants to read Twilight, please don't object just because it's Twilight. Object if you don't think it's healthy for them. Object if they're not emotionally mature enough for it. But please, don't object just because "there are other books that are better than Twilight". Your teen is not going to read Old Man and the Sea because you refused them Twilight. Instead, they're going to sulk.
Amen! Whenever I tell people I'm disturbed by the story but eat up the writing, they look at me like I'm crazy. Character development and story arc may not be Meyers' strong points, but she knows how to put together a sexy sentence.
I wished that had been said a year ago, when I finally bit the bullet and read the series, discovering, right away, how silly my utter determination to avoid reading it had been. I loved the books too and definitely agree with the escape from life thing. Alaska hit close to home, Twilight took me outta there. BTW, John, do you sleep?
There are books I read for depth and perspective and English classes, and there are books that I read because it's just fun. And Twilight is just fun.
...not to deny books of literary worth fun.
cheers!
I also LOVE the Twilight novels. They are amazing. But I hate that everywhere I go now I cannot turn a corner without seeing something Twilight Saga related. Makes me cringe. p.s you're awesome! LOL!
"You don't have to be attracted to individuals who share his genitalia to recognize that; in fact, if you change Edward's name and gave him slightly larger pecs, he'd have a lot in common with some of my more celebrated ex-girlfriends."
That got me thinking about the meadow scene from the first book, thank you for that image, John. :)
It is true as weaker willed females are helpless against t-shirtless men with nice hipbones. *laughs* Twilight was a ridiculously fun read and anyone who says it wasn't is entitled to their own opinion (which happens to be wrong).
Evangeline: Librarians (the good ones, anyway) do not judge! I know, because I am one.
Madison: "Hey guess what Washington Post? I'm not amused. I have a mentrual cycle and I'm not a fan of Twilight." QFT.
i'm so glad you posted this. I definitely agree. Twilight is so much fun, even though when you think about it, it's mostly just creepy.
And I'm behind on my NaNoWriMo too. :D
I've been keeping my eyes open, and I've actually found it hard to NOT find Strawberry Hill at convenience stores and Walmarts in my area. I think that's just because it's in the South. But it pleases me.
John, thank you for saying that. You made my day. (i was under the impression that you kind of thought it was stupid and shallow to like it).
Ooh, ending a blog post with parentheses. Awwwkward.
Will you make a post about Nanowrimo? I tried it for the first time this year, and I made it to 34,000 words. Fail. But I'm going to finish my story anyway.
Also, people get obsessed with just about anything. A good book, a bad book, a pet, a cactus, a toothbrush. I don't think the number of people obsessed with something has a direct relationship with it's value.
Hugs from Brooklyn!
While I agree with your overall point, I take issue with your assertion that Twilight is really fun to read. The first book, maybe, but they go way downhill from there. And Renesme? Really? That series totally jumped the shark.
All of my soccer coaches, and especially my current French one, encourages "bending" the rules a little until the ref calls it. And I don't completely disagree because it's too hard to fess up to a rule violation and more often than not the other team will get an unfair call in their favor. For example, if you're playing and the ball clearly touches your hand, what are you supposed to do? Stop playing and tell the ref? NO! The players on the other team will not stop playing they might call out "hand ball," but they'll definitely keep playing until the ref calls it. And most importantly, refs HATE it when told when to make a call. In all of my experience playing soccer whenever my coach or I or someone else on my team yells out a violation the ref won't be happy and might even give the coach a yellow card. So, I know Thierry was wrong, but the system in general is a little to blame.
Thanks for mentioning the Irish match.
I liked twilight as I was reading the books, but in no way are they good enough to warrant the attention they get. And now I've started to hate them because of that.
When I was... 13 I enjoyed the books? 13/14 years old. Somewhere around there. Currently, I'm 18 and find the books more than ridiculous. I dislike the pure physical aspects of Edward Cullen (I find no noteworthy and admirable characteristics about the 'man') and the hollow shell Bella Swan is (letting 80% of teenage girls, and even housewives, to relate to the role). Personally, the only reason I read the third book (never read the second. Too angst ridden and plan silly for me) was because I thought it was going to end. After reading Looking for Alaska, even though the characters had never really formed a formal romantic relationship,I found it more gripping than I ever found Twilight. Which, at the time, was amazing because I LOVED the first book. Anyways, I read the third book PURELY hoping that one of the main characters would die. Once I cried over Alaska it made that 'bond' aspect of relationships a lot more clear to me. Now, the second book might have been 'sad' but we all know what is going to happen. I took that ounce of hope and trooped through the pointless third book. And NOTHING. No one died and they were all sitting happy once more. I then got fed up, shoved the two books under my bed, and watch the Twilight Phenomenon bloom. the only reason I'd find them entertaining is for humors sake.
ok so i was extremly obssessed with twilight (well only new moon, eclipse, and breaking dawn, twilight sucked a**)and it was weird because i never really liked to read but after reading those books i loved reading and reading is like something that i enjoy doing now. i have a book club in my school i started and Language arts class i much easier for me. i have probably read at least 5 or 6 books (300-700 page) a month. so i guess twilight changed my life. i like twilight but now that i know what books can really do for you im not sure if i like the twilight saga that much anymore, i mean bella and edwards relationship kinda sucks... but taylor lautner is still extremely hot no matter what :)
I'm a relatively feminine 25 year old woman and I don't like Twilight, I wonder what Washington Post would make of that. It's not like I hate it; I've read it and almost finished New Moon as well but it was so annoying that I just couldn't finish it (Bella is driving me crazy with her lack of characteristics and personality and balls). I don't see the page turning quality everyone is talking about, I had no problems putting the book aside; mostly, I think, because the characters lacks personalities (ALL OF THEM). Go Team Harry Potter!
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