John Green: Author of Paper Towns, An Abundance of Katherines and Looking for Alaska
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The Advance v. Royalties Conversation Continues

Okay, quick background: Last week I wrote a post arguing against outrageously high book advances and in favor of better royalties for authors. I followed this up with a post arguing that the widely held belief that big advances cause big marketing budgets does not really hold up to scrutiny. (Big advances and big marketing budgets are obviously often correlated, but that does not imply any kind of causal relationship.)

Then I promised a mathy post explaining to publishers why this model makes more sense for them, after which I decided that my numbers were perhaps not as lock-solid as I previously believed them to be, so I decided not to publish that post.

For the record:

1. One thing that keeps getting overlooked here is that many big publishers would currently be OUT OF BUSINESS if they were not owned by gigantic media companies that can absorb the losses of their idiotic up-front gambling. It's not like I'm fretting about some on-the-horizon crisis in publishing; the crisis is here. The model is not working, and it isn't changing, which historically bodes poorly. (I'm looking at you, record companies.)


2. That said, my radical proposal was wrong enough to be relatively easy to dismiss. But if you lower advances and increase royalty escalations dramatically (at least according to my calculations which might be wrong because I am bad at math), over the last five years EVERY SINGLE PUBLISHER IN THE WHOLE ENTIRE EFFING WORLD would either be more profitable or lose less money except maybe Hachette.* So I just want to make it clear that I am not backing away from that fundamental belief.


3. The comments to these posts have been fascinating and wonderful and I am deeply grateful to all of you for them.


4. I wanted to pull one comment out and respond to it in pieces, because it raises a lot of important questions and also brings forth the obvious but as-yet-unstated fact that I am writing from a particular POV. So okay, from commenter writeon:

"If (like most authors) the only money you'd be making from a book is the advance (since most books don't earn out their advance or stay on shelves long enough to make royalties) why on earth would an author want to turn down money?"

I want to make it clear that I am not arguing against advances. My beef is not with $30,000 advances for books that might only earn $20,000 back. My beef is with $500,000 advances for books that might only earn $20,000 back.

The reason to take less money upfront and get more in royalties is pretty simple, I think: Your publisher is owned by a company that wants to make money. So long as you make money, you make sense. If you don't make money, you don't make sense.**

"Authors don't have a crystal ball where they can see into the future and say, "Well, in three years I'll come up with this Book X which will make me money, so, for right now I can sell Book Y and Z for pennies."


Again, I'm not proposing you sell any book for pennies; I'm proposing that you sell a book for a reasonable five-figure advance and the kind of escalating royalty that allows you to share fairly in the profits from the book, if there are any.


"Most authors don't know if they'll get the chance to publish another book. They can't count on publishers doing anymore than putting their book in a catalogue as their 'marketing.' You want THAT author to turn down money?"


Probably not, because that author probably hasn't been offered a huge advance. But I think that author is mistaken if s/he thinks that an antagonistic relationship with publisher will help get the book to its audience.


I think the miscommunication is that you are only looking at it from the perspective of a NYT best-selling author. Of an author who is writing the movie script for his own book -- and presumably being paid for it. Of an author who does get ARCs given out at BEA and ALA, and gets invites to speak everywhere. That's why the argument doesn't hold up.

Your books will make money regardless, a different author, with only a book in a catalogue can't afford to "offer to take less," because it is the only money they will earn from the book. You've been spoiled, that you don't know this.


The reason authors don't make royalty money is that contracts are structured incorrectly; they're structured so that publishers make A LOT of money on blockbusters and lose money on almost everything else. This hurts niche books much more than it hurts successful books, and much more than it hurts potential blockbusters.

(Also, I am technically only able to see it from my perspective, which is the actual and literal problem of humanness that books were invented to address. But when I try to see it from other perspectives, which is all a person can ever really do, I find myself still coming to the same conclusion.)

Also, I want to note that my books will not make money regardless, that many authors who are far more successful than I have books that lose money, and that the reason they lose money is ridiculous advances.

(For instance, I'm going to hazard a guess that Charles Frazier, who sells better than I do and also writes better, did not earn back the eight million dollars Random House paid him for Thirteen Moons.)

Now I'm not going to tell you to turn down an 8 million dollar advance. I'm telling Random House not to offer 8 million dollar advances. (Ever. For anything.)

What I'm saying is this:

1. Taking a smaller advance should not (on average) affect your sales negatively or positively.

2. The current model of buying overpriced lottery tickets in hopes of acquiring the next blockbuster is costing publishers more money than it is making them.

3. Better royalties with smaller advances is better business.

I think I'll stop posting about this now (except for maybe a Q&A with a real live publisher!), but let's continue the conversation in comments.


* Twilight.

** But to expand on that a bit: You have to begin with the (reasonable) assumption that your publisher wants to make money and would not have acquired your book if they did not feel that it could be profitable. It may be that they think it can only be profitable if they don't pay to hand out galleys at ALA, which is disappointing and annoying and etc., but it's irrational to assume from the outset that your publisher wishes to lose money on your book.

42 Comments:

At July 07, 2009 , Blogger shtetl woman said...

It's easy to see the merit from an industry-wide perspective: fewer ridiculous advances = increased sustainability in publishing. If this is the case, why don't book publishers already follow this model? I understand how media companies absorb losses (e.g. by owning the printing presses, or other similar practices) – but surely they're not all idiots? Secondly, it's impossible to tell authors NOT to take the massive advance. We're writers. Of course we want the money, and the ego stoking that goes with the massive advances. My question, which I don't think is addressed in your post, is which strategy would encourage publishers and book sellers to market books more effectively – because, for all of us, distribution and sales are a huge challenge.

 
At July 07, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

You opened a whole can of worms with this debate, didn't you John? Did you expect such a vast, intelligent and sometimes impassioned response from your blog-readers?

I think your overall point makes sense. It benefits the publishers and authors to dispense with ridiculously high advances. If a book is good enough and marketed well it should sell well, and thus the author AND publisher will make the money they would have otherwise exchanged in the advance.

Bekbek

 
At July 07, 2009 , Anonymous joelle said...

Maybe we should get the mathematician and YA math book author Danica McKellar at the next SCBWI conference to teach all us failed-at-math writers a thing or two. She could do your figures for you too! Her book, Math Doesn't Suck is great! http://www.mathdoesntsuck.com/?s=danicamckellar.com

 
At July 07, 2009 , Blogger Andrew Karre said...

As always, this is excellent.

I agree the contracts are broken (and if you think they're broken now, wait until you see what ebooks are going to do to them).

I wonder, though, if it helps not to think of the giant advances as advances per se, rather than the cost of total control of single authors work (and to a large extent that author's career).

It would also be interesting to consider what would happen if a major author asked for something radically different in a contract. For instance, instead of asking for a retail royalty on a format with high returns (hard covers), he or she insisted on a net royalty* on a fairly priced paperback original? It would cost more than a current reprint paperback, but less than a hardcover, say 12.95 or so. Libraries that insist on hardcovers will still be able to get them, as they do now, but the main retail format--the first format--would be paperback.

If the goal is a more sustainable publishing model that encourages publishers to publish a wide variety of authors and to support them over their careers, this might help.

(*A net royalty is a royalty paid on the amount the publisher actually receives from the retailer. If an author wanted to get really radical, he or she would insist that no price be printed on the book. There would only be wholesale terms for retailers, including non returnable ones. Hard to do this with retail royalties, I think.)

 
At July 07, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At July 07, 2009 , Anonymous chubawunkin said...

Two things: I think publishing companies think all books get the same advances, and by offering a famous politician millions for an exclusive biography, they think they need to offer a real best-selling author the same money.

Also, your hypothetical situations are just that until someone goes out and does it. So, when your current contract is up you should assemble all your author friends and do what you say or else shut up about it....

 
At July 07, 2009 , Blogger Paul S. Kemp said...

John,

You raise interesting points, but two issues come to mind.

First, there is, quite simply, far too much uncertainty from the author's point of view to turn away certain money (in the form of a higher advance) for speculative money (in the form of higher royalties that may or may not ultimately materialize). The latter is subject to the vagaries of the marketplace, the marketing (or lack thereof) that backs the release, macroeconomic trends, and a host of other unpredictable factors we could name. Given that, it's entirely rational, and probably desirable, to take the larger advance rather than the larger royalty rate.

Second, advances are just one component of a publisher's cost structure. I have no idea how large a component they comprise and I don't think your posts have addressed that. In the end, I'm not sure the business model of publishing is flawed, so much as the current cost structure of publishing is out of whack. But there are many places to look for cost reductions. They needn't necessarily come from authors' advances. All of which is to say that the advance structure could remain exactly as it is (possibly) and publishers do just fine, provided they could cut costs elsewhere.

 
At July 07, 2009 , Blogger DeEgZ said...

the only point of this post is to show you this:
http://www.threadless.com/product/968/Everybody_Loves_A_Yeti
i thought it was perfect.

 
At July 07, 2009 , Anonymous Megan said...

What I think many commenters are forgetting about your post is that you don't assume that authors WOULD turn down the certain money described by PaulSKemp. You're saying that the certain money that is OFFERED should be more reasonable.

Maybe we just need a lock-out like the NHL (National Hockey League). The salaries for players were too high and the clubs were losing money because they just didn't have enough seats to cover the cost of keeping their players around. So now there's a cap on how much you can pay your players, and while there's still huge money being offered to great players, there's a ceiling. Each team can only bid so high.

Right now, the publishing industry is bidding too high for their players, and they can't sell enough books to cover the costs. If we can force the athletes into reasonable (okay, crazy high, but still not as high) salaries, can't we convince authors to help save publishing too? Not by turning down huge advances, but by accepting that they're not going to get offered 8 million dollars anymore.

 
At July 07, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To answer shtetl woman's question: "If this is the case, why don't book publishers already follow this model?", it's a simple answer: no one is willing to blink first.

There is no doubt in any sane person's mind that the industry standard of making books returnable, a practice introduced in the Depression to stimulate sales, is not a model that is going to help. And yet, no one is willing to say, "That's it. Books are no longer returnable." The second somebody does that, the chains stop buying their books (or buy them in significantly fewer quantities) and the publisher is in serious financial trouble. So instead, all the big publishers look at each other and say, "You go first...no, you go first..." in an attempt to abolish the practice. But no one will.

Similarly, no one is willing to put a cap on advances because they know that another publisher will outbid them by paying the exorbitant amounts John is talking about. The second a publisher says, "Our top advance will now only be $50,000," someone else is going to come along and offer twice that.

It's a little like Shirley Jackson's Lottery. Publishers do it because that's how it's always been done.

And to respond to chubawunkin's assertion that publishers think everyone is getting the same advances, that's simply not true and demonstrates a lack of understanding how advances are determined in the first place. A fantasy YA is almost certainly going to earn a more substantial advance than a literary YA because fantasy is hot and the chances of that book succeeding are far greater. I guarantee you that AT NO TIME, has a publisher ever said, 'Well, we paid politician X $5 million for their book. Guess we need to pay Bestselling Author Y the same."

I'm glad John has started this discussion and I'm dismayed that he seems to be proving his initial point which is that there is far more greed acting as a motivator than rational practices that could save the industry. Not to be elitist here, and yes I know it's a business, but hell, isn't anybody in this for the writing anymore? I want writers to be able to eat and pay their bills too but then I'd prefer to see some real writing from them and not flavor-of-the-month writing that plays to the latest fad.

 
At July 07, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a wannabe author, I think your ideas make a lot of sense, especially if the royalty payments could be made more frequently (this is the 21st century after all), and if the author's percentage went up on a sliding scale of some sort.

 
At July 07, 2009 , Blogger Boozemonster said...

Great post and great responses. I'll make my statement short.

Business is about Blockbusters. Big companies bet on the Blockbuster, and betting on a big selling author is better than spreading the wealth to many average selling authors. Sure, it's like gambling, but big business is all about risk = reward. The big company will always pay more upfront for the chance at a large windfall coming from royalties. May be stupid, but that is how they got as big as they did; riding out a blockbuster and gobbling up the majority of royalties.

Sad thing is that the world is changing, and book sales may never ever be as high as they were in the past. So, a more intelligent model may seem like a no-brainer but, trying to change big business is like trying to change government . . .impossible.

 
At July 07, 2009 , Blogger John Green said...

For the record: I am not in favor of being greedy. I think money has nothing to do with writing books. (It has a lot to do with how best to publish them, though.)

I think greed is a bad motivator, and I don't think greed leads to the best possible books. ("Not for glory and least of all for profit," as Faulkner put it.)

I think the best model is one in which publishers and bookstores don't go out of business, and authors don't go out of business either.

And to PaulSKemp, I reiterate: I think it is better business to make money with your business partners than it is to cost your business partners money.

 
At July 07, 2009 , Blogger Lisa Schroeder said...

"Now I'm not going to tell you to turn down an 8 million dollar advance."

Authors every where are breathing a big sigh of relief.

 
At July 07, 2009 , Anonymous John R. said...

What is your opinion on the current ebook standard of little to no royalty and a massive (standard about 45%) royalty amount? As much as the idea hurts, ebooks will eventually replace paper ones.

I really like the above mentioned idea of the first run being paperback as opposed to hardcover. However, I very much disagree with the idea of royalties being based on net. I've seen a few "publishers" do that, and it's very much against the author's best interest. With royalties based on cover price, you know where you stand. Based on net, you can be cheated very easily. Most publishers won't cheat the authors, but there are already some that use net price specifically for that reason. Should Random House or another large publisher start doing that, it will give the air of legitimacy to the vanity publishers trying to portray themselves as commercial publishers.

Royalties on net really only hurt the author and make more money for everyone else. Unless the publisher is willing to offer a base royalty in the neighborhood of 20% (I did the math on this).

 
At July 07, 2009 , Blogger Kate said...

A couple people have been talking about net royalties- what's the difference between net royalties and regular royalties? I'm not in anyway involved in the publishing business, and Andrew Karre's explanation that "A net royalty is a royalty paid on the amount the publisher actually receives from the retailer" didn't do much to explain it for me.

 
At July 07, 2009 , Blogger Heather said...

I have a second cousin that is giving me the same advice about advances. She took a very small one on a self help book she put out. Now she is in the process of writing a memior and said it helps a lot to be able to appoarch new publishers and show that her book made back the advance.

It is good that you pointed out the record industry. Although the advances are done very differently I have seen lots of musicians fails because they see big money figures and don't think about them in the long run. Just because a label spends big money advertising you doesn't mean that they are going to continue doing so if you don't make their money back fast. If you can't make up for what they spent on your recording, you are as good as dropped without hopes of a second album.

Thanks so much for writing about this topic. As a novelist with hopes of publishing in the new couple of years, it is so good to hear what other authors have to say. It's all a learning process so anything I can study is helpful.

 
At July 07, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

"But there are many places to look for cost reductions. They needn't necessarily come from authors' advances. All of which is to say that the advance structure could remain exactly as it is (possibly) and publishers do just fine, provided they could cut costs elsewhere."
Where would you suggest publishers do this cost cutting? Despeccing books (already done). Moving toward electronic catalogs and sales conferences (done). Hiring freezes (done). Salary freezes on already notoriously low salaries (done). Layoffs (done). Cutting marketing budgets (done). Decreased presence at industry conferences (done). Being more careful about acquisitions and as a result acquiring fewer books/taking fewer risks(done). Cancelling books (done). Putting books out of print if sales don't justify the cost of warehousing them (done). The only place we haven't really cutback is advances. Would you really rather publishers take more out of marketing budgets? We're going out of business here.

To the person who asked about net v. retail royalty. Most trade authors get a retail royalty, a percentage of the suggested retail price (say 10% of 16.99 for a hardcover). They get that percentage of 16.99 even if amazon or b&n heavily discounts the book and sells it at 12.99. The bookstores though buy the books at a discount though, say 40 or 50% off, which is where they make their profit and what allows them to discount (so they're actually paying 8.99 or 10.99 for that 16.99book.) A net royalty is a percentage based on that lower price instead of the retail price.

 
At July 07, 2009 , Blogger ThePeterIs said...

I agree with you on the advance vs. royalties issue. However, I think the more disturbing practice of book publishers is the whole, making to many books, buying them back from book stores and destroying the extras. You talked about that once(blog TV I think). Anyway, that sounds quite wildly inefficient to me, and would seem to be a much bigger problem. Could you maybe talk about that next?

Also, I'm OK with seeing the big publishers die. If they can't change and figure it out and stay profitable, then we should let them go bankrupt and stop existing. Clear the way for new companies with new minds. Doesn't DFTBA start publishing soon? I'd rather buy your next book from them...

 
At July 07, 2009 , Anonymous Theresa said...

First of all, I loved reading and learning from this discussion.

Secondly, I love the fact that you take the time to discuss things like this.

And lastly, I loved this quote:
"I am technically only able to see it from my perspective, which is the actual and literal problem of humanness that books were invented to address."

That is all. DFTBA.

 
At July 07, 2009 , Blogger Crystal said...

My only worry is that if the publishing companies start to lose too much money, they won't take a risk and publish new authors, but will instead take the safe bet and keep publishing commercial authors who've already put out like 20 books.

I just don't want to end up with only new James Patterson books (and, I mean, come ON, he doesn't even write his own books anymore).

 
At July 08, 2009 , Anonymous Lourdes said...

It seems that the publishing world has turned into Hollywood. The movies that will be potential box office hits get all the cash. Those that seem indie need to work with what they got.(I recently watched "Fog City Mavericks" on Starz where they discussed the works of George Lucas {along with other Bay Area film auteurs} which were not supported at all because they were not box office material. Both American Graffiti and Star Wars we on to do extremely well.)Publishers now are pumping out all the vampire books they can. Reissues of "Thirsty" and "Vampire Diaries" are all over the place and they are from the 90's; however, they will sell. "Marcelo in the Real World" by Francisco X. Stork is a fantastic book but beyond VOYA or ReadingRants I have heard nothing about it. Picking what is going to the "bestseller" is not working. Let the book become a bestseller on its own. "Thirteen Reasons Why" slowly climbed the NYT Bestseller list because of word of mouth. I should know, I told everyone I knew to read it. How did I find about about it? It was on the "to be cataloged" shelf at my job. The cover was cool. Advances should be a springboard. The publisher should have faith in the work and its potential to reach out to the core readers-everything else should be organic.

 
At July 08, 2009 , Blogger Andrew Karre said...

Interesting to see others' perceptions of what books are under-appreciated. Marcelo in the Real World has four starred reviews (PW, Kirkus, Booklist, and Horn). It's been well covered in the online venues I frequent. And, not coincidentally, it's sold several thousand copies at least in four months. If it were my book, I'd be pleased as punch with its success to date.

Children's publishing, especially YA, is pretty diverse space. Lots of it can go "Hollywood" without crowding out truly remarkable books like MARCELO (or THIRSTY, for that matter).

 
At July 08, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

JG Quote:

"... Your publisher is owned by a company that wants to make money. So long as you make money, you make sense. If you don't make money, you don't make sense..."


THIS is why authors grab the advance that is offered, and will never turn down a big, fat paycheck. Because they can't count on the pub being there for them (giving them another book deal) if their book doesn't earn out. It doesn't matter if they got paid 10k or 300k. They know the pub is going to drop them, not nurture them, if they don't sell.

The buzz on Advances Paid IS marketing: I've never read Charles Fraser, but I know how much he got paid. I though Audrey Nefenneger's (sp) best-selling book was plotless and wildly overrated, but, wtihout trying, I know how many millions she got paid for her upcoming book. I know what Harper paid for the YA "Wings" fairy books even though I don't read fantasy. Large advances get your book more name recognition than the book being "good" ever will. If that isn't marketing, if it doesn't at least garner A LOT more buzz about your book, I don't know what would. For that alone, I'd take the large advance. You can have all the loyalty you want towards a publisher, (taking a small advance to make sure your book earns out) but in this business, that loyalty is not returned. That is why writers, right or wrong, take the large adavance and will continue to.

 
At July 08, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow, seeing all this from the persective of someone who's dealt with the publishing buisness is really fascinating. I don't have much to contribute, seeing as I only really know what you've told us about the publishing world, but it's been very enlightening =D

On an unrelated note, I'd like to recommend these two websites:
www.givesmehope.com (FML for optimists!!) and www.freerice.com (possibly the most nerdfighterly website I've seen in a long time, you get to learn new stuff while feeding the poor!)

 
At July 08, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

You took six-figure advances for your last few books, didn't you? Are you going to take a smaller advance for your next one?

 
At July 08, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Isn't it funny to compare the arguments between readers of this blog (intellecutual, opinionated, and of substance) to readers of the same age group from different blogs, where the usual argument consists of "Which is sexier, stony pale man or strong, hairy wolf man?"

 
At July 08, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is the cutoff point of what is being considered "a lot" of money?

Because "a lot" for a lead title in one genre of book is not necessarily "a lot" of money for a book in a different genre.

YA fantasy is what usually gets big, 500 thousand dollar advances BECAUSE they also sell well in MARKETS OUTSIDE THE US. So, divided up among those other countries they sell to automatically, at least half, if not seventy-five percent of their advance is ALREADY earned out before their books even hit the shelves. Maybe that isn't so bad at all, really.

John Green books are not a YA fantasy trilogy, and therefore do not sell to other, non US markets as readily. But they still have name recognition and a built-in audience of nerdfighters to purchase them in the States. With certainty you will more than likely sell 50,000 dollars worth of books in the US market. Does that mean that you'd turn down an advance of 100 thousand?

 
At July 08, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To everyone challenging John to put up or shut up by either disclosing what sort of advance his last few books have received or asking if he'd refuse a six figure advance: YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT.

Please go back and read all of these posts. What it boils down to is John is making a modest proposal on how the publishing industry might save itself from itself. Don't offer astronomical advances that will never earn out. Period. That's what he's saying.

If it seems like he's called out authors for taking these advances, it's merely that he's perceived a trend in new authors who EXPECT these sort of huge advances. I work with YA authors: the perception is correct in a surprising large amount. Many neophyte authors spend time on their blogs bemoaning that they didn't get six figures and they want their books to go to auction and etc. John started this discussion by saying, "Here's why you should be happy with the advance you got because, really, these outrageous advances are damaging the system."

That's all. And it's more than a little tacky to ask him what sort of advance his other books received (for him to disclose what he got for ALASKA is very forthright but he doesn't owe anyone anything beyond that) or to suggest that he lead some sort of charge to refuse a huge advance if offered. Really, folks. That's tacky.

John clearly didn't start the discussion to be a crusader. I've been watching it with a great deal of interest. Some people make valid counterpoints and John does his best to address them. It's the people who totally misread what he's been saying who aren't making a valid contribution to the discussion.

To quote Harlan Ellison: "You are not entitled to your opinion, you're entitled to your informed opinion." John has shared an informed opinion. Those taking him to task by simply saying, "show me the money" are not doing so.

 
At July 08, 2009 , Blogger John Green said...

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

So. So this is kind of what I'm talking about when I talk about the fact that the advance system is out of control and authors are way too focused on their advances and forging some (incorrect) causal relationship between upfront money and book sales.

I happened across a conversation about my recent posts in which a group of people were discussing my personal hypocrisy, and debating among themselves what my advance against royalties must have been for "Paper Towns."

And it was suggested that my advance for "Paper Towns" was ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

ARE YOU PEOPLE MAD?

(For the record: It was $30,000.)

 
At July 08, 2009 , Anonymous Chelsea said...

I featured all your entries on the subject on my book blog. You certainly bring up many interesting points. This has been a problem for many years, and I've heard a lot of other people criticize the publishing industry, but I've never heard a possible solution to the problem. I hope publishers can at least CONSIDER making changes to their format in the future.

 
At July 08, 2009 , Anonymous Emily said...

Why don't you post videos anymore?! I loved them! tThey were so funny!

 
At July 09, 2009 , Anonymous Lourdes said...

Andrew Karre,

This is why I merely work at a library and should not become a librarian. I have heard great things about "Marcelo in the Real World" as well. Yet, beyond sites where they discuss books and review them I do not hear much about it. I feel that they should market the book where teens will hear about it. I did not read Horn or PW when I was 16. I should have, but I did not. I agree about its success so far. The book deserves it. In terms of me mentioning "Thristy" I hope it did not sound heartless of me. I was simply pointing out that vampires are in and that since the book is about vampires it gets a new cover and attention. This does mean that it is not a great book. I am reading it now for book club and the writing kicks arse. This is why I barely comment hear. I have no merit to.

 
At July 09, 2009 , Anonymous meditation blog said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At July 09, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

John, thanks for being open about your advance. That "ka-ching" is the Respect-ometer going up another notch.

It was a good dose of reality for a pre-published author.

I'm involved in a micropublishing venture soon to launch that, when it pays authors, will do so by royalty only, at something like 20-25 percent. We've got an academic affiliation, so the considerations are different than those of a publicly held corporation, but to those starting up, this seemed like a more equitable way to spread the risk and share the rewards.

 
At July 09, 2009 , Anonymous Kathryn said...

Hey John,

Thanks for hosting this awesome conversation on your blog. To add to it, I would like to point you to HarperStudio, a publishing imprint from HarperCollins that is trying to do exactly what you propose. They're a small team that just started a little over a year ago, with an experimental publishing model (lower advances, higher profit shares, and selling nonreturnable) and a great blog.

Website: http://theharperstudio.com/
Blog: http://theharperstudio.com/category/26th-story/

 
At July 09, 2009 , Anonymous El Gato/Nuwon Wearspants said...

Dear Mr. Green - I am a teenage girl, but I also want to be a writer. I don't understand much about royalties and advances (from my understanding royalties are when someone purchases the book, and advances are huge(or not so huge) sums of money paid in advance before the book is on the shelves?). But, what does this mean for me, who wants to be a writer and will be in this industry in five to ten years?

 
At July 10, 2009 , Blogger Gary Frank said...

If a publisher offers an author a huge advance, I would think, in some cases, it's being offset by another of their author's sales.

If right now, any publisher said, we're going to cut our advances so we can make money, most of their authors would probably go elsewhere. I understand even Tom Clancy can't earn out his advances, but the alternative is losing him to another house.

The other issue might very well be that ridiculously high advances generates buzz in the industry, which can create sales. Example: there's a gent who (last I heard) was getting $3.75 million for a posy apocalyptic vampire trilogy. He's written a couple of literary novels, but nothing commercially successful. So does this amount of an advance generate buzz? Why's this guy getting that kind of money? Publisher must think it's awesome, so let's run out and buy a 100 copies.

And, as someone said, with the ridiculously tiny window for sales of a new author (what is it, 3 months?) before the book is returned, it's nearly impossible to earn out a big advance.

Thanks for the post.


Gary . . .

 
At July 11, 2009 , Anonymous Gina Browning said...

Hi,
I'm a newly published author, and will be depending on 50% royalties, although the money is not why I wrote the book. I would have loved to have a large "advance" (good for your ego, right?) But now, I'm not sure how that would have worked out, given the discussions on here...
anyway, thanks for the thought provoking topic!
Gina Browning
http://www.eloquentbooks.com/MoonbeamDreams.html

 
At July 12, 2009 , Anonymous Dave said...

Hi John,

Have you seen this machine?
http://www.ondemandbooks.com/hardware.htm
They have one at the University of Alberta, and I've heard it claimed that, coupled with internet advertising it will revolutionize publishing. That might be a stretch, but given the $1.79 DVD rental machines that have popped up in every Safeway and Costco and Walmart lately, It is conceivable. If it remains open access, we might see a revolution. However, given our experience with the music industry, which was supposed to collapse 5 or so years ago under the weight of downloading, I am not sure that it's going to go down like that.

 
At July 15, 2009 , Blogger Dawn said...

Ok, wait....a $30,000 advance for Paper Towns after wining the Printz Award for Alaska? So, an official teen literary rock star receives close to an annual librarian's salary for years of work.

Whoa....my mind is officially blown.

Poor John!

 
At July 24, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

This series has been great! I've learned so much.

What do you advise first-time YA authors to do: query publishers directly or try for an agent first?

 

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