John Green: Author of Paper Towns, An Abundance of Katherines and Looking for Alaska
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Really Long & Boring Post about Book Advances and Publishing

UPDATE thanks to comments from Diana Peterfreund and Justine Larbalestier (both brilliant): I am not imagining here a world that exists. I am imagining a world that I think might exist, and I think experience better and more consistent growth, if authors and editors and agents collectively decided to make it so. Also, I am radically oversimplifying the way that advances get paid out, although I don't think it affects the overall argument.

I'm going to argue today that big book advances are almost always bad for both authors and publishers. I'll try to stay active in comments (if anyone's interested) and edit the post as needed. First, some background:

1. Authors are usually paid an advance against royalties; i.e., when they sign a contract, some money will be paid to them in advance of the book's publication. Then they'll earn 10% (ish) of the hardcover price for each book sold. So if a book sells for $20, the author gets $2 per book. To "earn out" a $10,000 advance and start getting royalties, you'd have to sell 5,000 copies. After 5,000 copies, the author starts to make royalties at $2 a book, which are paid to the author in a lump sum twice a year. (For a variety of reasons, including discount stores, the actual math is much more complicated.)

2. The definition of "big advance" changes if you have a proven sales record. But we'll just say to make the math easier that a $100,000 advance is "big." (Which, I mean, it is.)

3. In all this, it's important to remember that the publishing business has become very blockbuster-focused, because it's a better way to generate short-term revenue. So they're chasing blockbusters right now.

Let us imagine a book called The Unicornians about a secret race of unicorn-people. A young writer with a job and a family has been working on The Unicornians for years in her limited free time, and she is finally pleased with it, having polished the love triangle between a Unicornian boy, a Werewolvian boy, and a human (but special!) girl. So the author sends The Unicornians off to agents, and some hotshot agent picks it up.

The agent is really high on The Unicornians. She thinks it's the next Twilight. So she submits it to several editors at once. Editor 1 comes back offering $300,000 for three books. Editor 2 offers $30,000 for three books but with a significantly better hardcover royalty. (Say, 20% instead of 10%.)

Putting aside the (very important) questions of which editor would be a better fit and which publisher is doing a better job with Unicornian-esque books, I would argue that the author of The Unicornians is always better off signing with Editor 2.

Let's say that The Unicornians is not a tremendous success. The first book in the trilogy sells 8,000 copies in hardcover; the second two sell 6,000*. With Editor 1, the author gets her $300,000^^, but The Unicornians comes up $240,000 short^^^ of earning out. With Editor 2, the author only makes $80,000 on the series, but $50,000 of that is royalty, and the publisher has also made a (modest) profit. The publisher will likely ask the author for another series, perhaps something focused in on the werewolf dude.

Some people would rather have money, but I suspect what most authors want is longevity. (e.g., I assume that everyone would rather make $300,000 in a career that contains 30 books than $300,000 in a career that contains three books.^)

Okay, so now let's say The Unicornians IS successful. Let's say the first book sells 250,000 copies in hardcover**, because they make a movie, and teens squeal about how hot the unicornian boy's horn looks. The second and third books also sell 250,000.*** With Editor 1's deal, the author earns back her advance and makes $1.2 million, for a total of 1.5 million dollars. With Editor 2's deal, the author earns out and makes $2.7 million in royalties, for a total of $3 million.****

So that's why it's better for authors, but why is it better for publishers?

Currently, publishers pay for all their bad bets with their good bets--blockbusters like Twilight pays for a lot of $300,000 advances on books that don't sell well. But shifting the incentive away from advances and toward bigger royalty splits would lead to steadier growth across the board instead of surges of growth followed by excessive correction. Better splits would also incentivize authors to do more to get their work to readers, which would help growth.

It seems to me that the publishing business has a lot in common with the mortgage industry: A publisher loans you some money, which they expect you to pay back. And if you don't pay it back, you get a black mark on your reputation and the publisher has to eat a lot of the loss. And we've seen in the mortgage industry that both lenders and borrowers do a lot better when homeowners have an equity stake, and when they've been loaned an amount they can reasonably expect to repay. And I'm increasingly convinced that publishing would be healthier if we moved in that direction.



* A lot of people will say that publishers are more motivated to spend money on marketing a book if they spend a lot of money on the advance. This is true, but only up to a point. In the end, publishers want to make money, and they don't really care how they make it. If they think your book will sell, it doesn't matter if they paid $10,000 for it or $300,000. (I am, to a minor extent, living proof of this.)

Related: These same people might argue that a publisher would be less inclined to support a book if the author were getting a higher percentage of the book's cover price, since they'll make less money on that book. That seems totally plausible to me, but what I'm proposing is that more or less all of us come together and more or less say, "Advances are unreasonably high, but a 20% hardcover split makes more sense than 10%." (Which it does.)


** I am completely ignoring paperback sales only because they make the math more complicated. I don't think they affect the validity of my argument.


*** Real breakout books (like Twilight) in fact sell much more than this, which is why publishers are so gaga over them. Like, imagine a company that publishes Laurie Halse Anderson, Sarah Dessen, M. T. Anderson, Walter Dean Myers, E. Lockhart, Maureen Johnson, Coe Booth, anyone else you can think of other than J.K. Rowling, and me. The combined 2009 sales of that publishing company would be a fraction of the sales of a company that publishes just the Twilight series.


**** Although even in this massively oversimplified example, these numbers still do not tell the entire story, because royalties are only paid out twice a year, and they are paid three months late. So with the current system, one of the big financial advantages to getting paid an advance is that with an advance, the money sits in your bank, but if you earn royalties, the money spends many months in the publisher's bank, where it is not generating interest--or, to be more precise, it is not generating interest for you. But anyway, even putting aside the fact that royalties should be paid more frequently and should include interest, according to my numbers, big advances still don't earn as much in the long run.


^ UPDATE: Sara Zarr points out that the 3 books v. 30 books is not about number of books, exactly--as she says, she'd rather be Harper Lee than James Patterson. And I suppose if one feels that a bigger advance will get this one great book that's in them out into the world in a deeper and more lasting way, then fair enough--although for the record I don't think Ms. Lee was not paid much in advance for TKaM.

^^ UPDATE: Diana Peterfreund, Abby, and others have pointed out that one benefit to the advance is that you have money to quit your job and then work on the next two books in your Unicornian trilogy. True enough.

^^^ UPDATE: In comments, Mary Pearson makes the very astute observation that the risk is a two-way street; the author is giving the publisher exclusive right to publish stuff, and an advance is a way of lessening the author's risk that the publisher totally screw everything up (which of course publishers do sometimes). That's a really compelling argument for advances, I think. (I still feel that excessive advances are bad for both sides of the seesaw, though.)

120 Comments:

At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous MuggleQueen said...

This comment comes in 3 parts:
1. Why is it called The Unicornians? I thought you were on Team Zombie!

2. I actually found it really interesting, not boring!

3. Surely at the moment your argument about interest is pretty much irrelevant, because rates are practically 0%.

*waits to be told I'm wrong*

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Amy said...

I spoke to a small local publisher about getting my book published and he told me that for first-time authors it's better to send your manuscript directly to publishers, rather than an agent. Is that true? I find it hard to believe.

Also, when you send your manuscript, do you send the first, say, 3 chapters and a synopsis of the rest of the book? If so, how long should the synopsis be?

This is a very interesting and useful post! Thank you John! :D

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger mbpbooks said...

100% in agreement, John. Thank you for this.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Katy said...

Well, I can see why you wouldn't get paid the royalties all that frequently. Otherwise you'd end up with a six dollar check every other week, which would just be a waste of postage.

Also, I find this sort of publishing business exceedingly fascinating. I want to work for a publishing company someday. After college and all that.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Abby said...

I agree with you on the relative pressure that large advances create - raising the bar for what qualifies as a success, so you can be selling 10,000, maybe 20,000 copies of a hardback and still be deemed a failure. But, there is one big practical advantage to advances that hasn't been mentioned, and that's that you get them, well, in advance. That money can be crucial to an author needing the time and resources to write - particularly in multi-book contracts. So, upfront cash has a convenience attached to it that cannot be underestimated.

Take your example: the Unicornarian author has spent years tinkering with her masterpiece. Now, under scenario 1, she gets $300,000 advance when it finally sells. We know because of installments etc that this could probably break down to a chunk on signing contracts, more on delivery, acceptance, and then publication of each book (and with figures like that, tax-wise, it's likely the advance will be structured over a couple of tax years as well). But, crucially, she could see a large part of that money (between $30,000 and $50,000) on signing, ie, within say 2-5 months of the sale.

Under the $30,000 deal in scenario 2, she would see only between $3,000 and $5,000 on signing, and no more than $10,000 that first year, before publication. Royalties wouldn't kick in for months after publication, plus this is assuming a quick turnaround of only a year from sale to pub - often it's longer, I know.

If it's a multi-book deal, then the publisher will want book 2 on shelves no more than a year from publication of book 1, and then number 3 following on a similar schedule. Suddenly, the author who has spent years on her Unicornian masterpiece has a matter of months to deliver book 2, while editing the debut, spending time on copy-edits etc. Now, I know many authors, the majority in fact, manage to deliver multiple books while holding down full-time jobs, and supporting their families, but in my experience, that isn't ideal. Scenario 1 may not be in the long-term interest of the author, but with deadlines looming, it would probably allow her to quit her job, buy private healthcare, and write full-time to deliver the books her publisher has paid a lot of money for.

Scenario 2 is a wonderful idea, I agree, but it assumes that the author has the time and resources to carry on on their existing income for over a year after the sale, while writing and editing the books in addition to their other responsibilities, while they wait for the larger royalties to kick in later.

I honestly don't know what I'd choose in this situation, but I can tell you, the money upfront - and the financial freedom/security it provides - is a very tempting prospect. My advance for my first novel enabled me to switch to writing full-time, helping me establish my career, and write (and sell) more books a year. Do I worry about earning out? All the time. Does it panic me that my debut could mar the rest of what I want to be a long career? Of course. But I don't think for a second I could have written 4 books in the last two years (plus new proposals, copy-edits, promo work) if I'd been stressing over a full-time job as well.

So yes: an idea that makes sense on paper, but in life, I'm not sure if it's tempting enough to outweigh the practical advantages.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Dave said...

As someone who would like to one day write a novel, I find this really interesting.

I mean $300,000 is a LOT of money and part of me would find that really hard to resist (luckily, however, that part of me is also easily distracted by shiny things). But for me personally it would be more about having your book out there, not so much about the money. The trouble is do people get caught out, do people not get given options and are just offered 6 figure sums, then their book doesn't sell and they get essentially blacklisted. Does stuff like that happen? That would be reason enough for change I would think.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Abby said...

Just to clarify for the discussion, a $300,000 advance for 3 books would probably be broken down in an approximation of $100,000 per book, spread over 18 months each to account for delivery, acceptance, publication installments. This is the same regardless of the advance size. They don't just hand you a cheque for the whole sum up-front :)


Plus, this isn't assuming joint accounting, where you have to earn out your entire advance amount for ALL books before you see any royalties (the publisher's way of covering themselves against failure of the later books).

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Virggy said...

Since I am no good at math, I have no idea what is going on. All I understood was that big pay out=bad in the end. Maybe publishing companies would save a lot more money by switching to Gieco.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Diana Peterfreund said...

Amy, your acquaintance is wrong. Get an agent. a lot of publishers won't look at unagented manuscripts, and they certainly won't look at them in any reasonable length of time. An agent is also in a much better position to figure out what editors are specifically inclined to want YOUR book.

Regarding the hypothetical John lays out here, I'd be far more inclined to agree with his perspective if I'd ever seen competing book offers laid out with that kind of royalty structure on the back end. Outside of epublishing companies, royalties seem to be pretty standard. I've sold most of my books at auction (i.e., competing offers) and the advances (and advance splits -- when and how they get paid out) have varied, as well as the rights grabs. The royalties? not so much.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I completely agree with Abby. The problem is that your model sees the author not getting much money for something like two years. Which is ridiculous.

The beauty of the advance is getting money up front when you need it. Royalties are grand when you get them but they take an insanely long time. Your publisher gets to sit on them for ages accruing interest while you eat bread and dripping. Not good.

Also as Diana said there's very little variation in royalties given out. Twenty per cent to a brand new author?! Someone who isn't Stephen King? I'd LOVE to see that.

Also I see a major discrepancy between how publishing houses get behind authors with big advances versus small. (What counts as a "big" advance being relative to the house in question.) There are exceptions but they just prove the rule.

So, sure, in an ideal world your system would be lovely. Sadly, we are not in that world.

Justine

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Hannah said...

Oh, goody. More information on the publishing world for this publishing nerd! Few people out there have heard of authors needing (okay, not exactly needing but having one makes it all so much easier) an agent, let alone how complex the royalty/advance system is. So, thanks for sharing.

Also: why the unicorns? Why not zombies?

On a side note, have you read "Pride and Predjudice and Zombies" yet? It's awesome.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger annie said...

Thanks for more on the economics of publishing, John! As I'm sure a bunch of nerdfighters are potential authors, this is very helpful information. I can see how an editor waving big numbers in front of your face might be exciting, but it can also be a career-killer if your book doesn't make back that money.

I hope you post more info about the world of publishing/being a working writer!

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger John Green said...

Justine and Diana: 1. Yes, I totally agree that I am imagining a world that does not exist (but could exist, if authors started to judge offers by royalty rate not advance).

2. In my model, the author gets next to nothing until her book begins to sell, whereupon she should (again, I'm imagining) begin to get paid. Payment would be based on sales, and it would come quickly after sales, say, monthly. (Which is totally, totally doable. I could set this up to work automatically with Hank's help in six weeks, and I am not even good at computers).

3. I agree there is a discrepancy between how publishers get behind books with big advances vs. small advances. But does this reflect a financial reality (dubious, imho*) or does it reflect that the editor and publisher are more excited about the book they pay more for?

* Dubious because: Say you paid $300,000 for The Unicornians. Then say you paid $3,000 for Looking for Alaska. You are currently in the hole $303,000. It doesn't matter _which book_ you sell a lot of to make back your $303,000--only that you sell a lot of at least one of them.

Admittedly, in the above example, I am assuming that publishers are behaving rationally, which they don't, but still.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger John Green said...

Abby: You are completely right that if you need $50,000 upfront in order to quit your job and write the second two books in your series, then the only solution is to take the (long term financially inferior) deal from Editor 1.

Although on the other hand, I should state for the record that even if you get a million dollar book deal, I think it is crazy to quit your job before you see how your first book sells. (I might be wrong; I don't have like data on that or anything.)

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Mandy Hubbard said...

1. I'm not sure why you assume that the average author would rather write 30 books for 300K than 3. At 300K, I would have a chance at quitting the day job and writing, at least for a couple of years. To write 30 books for 300K means I would spend the next 10-20 years writing books and working my day job. Which is a distinct possibility already and YES, I'd still do that, but I think some people would go for 3 books @ 300K. Some poeple just dont have 30 books in them.

2. I also think its a bit of a stretch to think that a pub is going to heavily market a cheaper (lower advance) book. They don't. I'm in a group of 60 debut authors, and it's very obvious who got larger advances without anyong saying it. Some are flown on pre-pub tours, get huge book dump/displays, have banners in the publishers weekly emails, etc.

Your debut won a printz, right? While I have no idea what your advance was, winning an award like that puts you in a different stratosphere.

I'm cool with my "normal" sized advance because it took a lot to get me to this point, so may as well keep having to work my butt off to earn anything else. I like that I dont have blockbuster expectations and have a real shot at building up steam, creating a readership.

I think the real point of the argument is that large advances are bad for the smaller authors, becuase it means the publisher's are very, very focused on those select 100K+ novels, and teh smaller ones will have ot braek out on their own merits.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger eluper said...

John,

The trouble is that it puts the publisher at a disadvantage with the scores of first-time authors out there who they can give a $7000 advance to and still give the 10%-ish royalty to. There is likely a tipping point that is different on a publisher-by-publisher basis dependent upon the percentage of new authors they typically debut in a set period of time.

Time for the number crunchers.

However, it would likely be a very different financial breakdown for a publisher that puts out lots of first-time authors compared to one that puts out lots of track-tested earners.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger John Green said...

Mandy:

The assumption is that if you magically find out that your lifetime income from writing will be 300k, then you'd rather have it come from 30 books than 3--because I assume authors ultimately care a lot more about sharing their work with readers than they do about their financial well-being. (Otherwise, they'd be in banking. Or really, any other business.)

It's true as I say in the post that there is a correlation between advance and marketing dollars. But it's not a strict correlation (my advance for "Looking for Alaska" was $8,000, and they spent a fair amount on marketing; certainly more than my tiny advance would have indicated).

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Sara Z. said...

So let me ask you this, JG: will you now work with your agent and pub to take modest advance and better royalty rates on your next contract?

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Diana Peterfreund said...

Oops, sorry, I didn't realize we were talking really hypothetical.

Though what we are talking about DOES exist in the land of epublishing (low or no advance, large royalty percentages paid monthly or quarterly). However, it's not *currently* a very big market share outside of certain subgenres of romance. And that's a HUGE conversation going on right now in that genre.

The job stuff stands though. I would not have been able to write full time without the advance system in place. Not having a second job was what made it possible for me to write in a second genre, and sell another book for yet another advance. So there is that. Advances have helped me jumpstart my career.

Though writers faster than me could probably do the same thing if they can get put on a quick release schedule. With 26 months between sale and release of my first YA... it's a very different landscape without an advance.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger John Green said...

Sara Z: Yes.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Sara Z. said...

P. S. The 3 vs 30 thing is not about sharing more work with the world. I think most writers would rather be Harper Lee or Salinger than James Patterson.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger John Green said...

Diana:

The job thing does affect one's calculus re. priorities, yeah. (When I signed my "Alaska" deal, I really liked my job and had no aspirations of leaving it, so that might be why I was blind to it in the post.)

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger John Green said...

Sara: Good observation.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Mandy Hubbard said...

John:

Good to hear on the marketing done for Looking For Alaska. :-)
I think that's pretty rare, but its great to hear that it happens! An enthusiastic editor/sales team, I think, can make a big impact on your career.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Lisa McMann said...

Great post, John, and not at all boring.

I think your suggested scenario is definitely the way to go for a debut author. There's plenty of pressure as it is without a huge advance hanging over your head that will determine whether you'll ever sell another book.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Sara Z. said...

Sorry to leave many small coents in a row! Fun though. I do not sdisagree w you and am interested to see how it goes. The idea of no advance at all has appealed to me. ME Kerr made enough on writing pulp fiction in the sixties and seventies under pseudonyms to refuse advances for her YA. (that is she writes the whole book then sells it but prob does take some money at that point) it is a dilemma. Money buys time for the writer and more time =better books, usually. But then ultimate time freedom would be NO contract or deadlines, which would require other sources of inceome

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Sara Z. said...

Not drunk. Typing on phone.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger John Green said...

Sara: I was gonna ask. :)

I hear what people are saying about buying time, but royalties buy time, too.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Abby said...

If you do negotiate a different royalty/advance agreement, John, it will be very interesting to watch. Like the group of screen-writers who secured a percentage of gross a couple of years ago (http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117970235.html?categoryid=13&cs=1), new structures and innovation in the way writers work and are rewarded can only be a good thing.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Anna Jarzab said...

I also think it's important to point out that we're not always talking about debut authors getting crazy huge advances for books that might not/probably won't sell out, at least not the way the publisher hopes they will (I'm going to go ahead and guess that auctions contribute to this; a publisher pays way more than they probably sensibly should, and more than they originally meant to, even if their starting offer is lower than what they project to spend on a project at auction, for a book because they WANT IT, get caught up in fervor, and then pay for it later).

We're also talking about $500,000 advances for a book written by fifteen-minutes-of-fame-type celebrities, like the guy who piloted the plane into the Hudson River (I mean, the man's a hero, but when I saw that book deal I was like, Wuh?). I don't have numbers on how many of THOSE earn out, but I would guess not very many.

Publishers find a lot of ways to spend a lot of money up front on books that I feel like you can just hear the description of and know they won't sell, at least not the way you know the publisher wants them to, and those books are even a worse investment than $300,000 to a debut novelist for her unicornian/werewolf love triangle trilogy because they are trying to capitalize off brief flashes of celebrity rather than the work of a dedicated writer.

In essence, I don't disagree at all, but I think the problem is even bigger than the scenario you proposed, John. Which is very sad pancakes.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Michael said...

Co-sign with Abby. I think one of the dreams for people who have been tinkering with their novels over the last four years in their free time is that, if they get the manuscript to the right person, they'll be able to get that big advance, quite their job (even if it's only temporarily) and really give the book its due.

I know that writing part-time is not only a hobby for many people, but a passion for others, but I also think that kind of writing is different than the pressure one would feel being settled into a contract and having to put out the next book by such and such a date.

The little advance also shows that it works well with the blockbusters, but is it going to be such an intense difference with a book that doesn't sell that many copies? I mean, what about a book that only sells 50,000?

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Sara Z. said...

Anna J'.s comment about auctions makes me wonder, too, what role agents play in all this, and if/how strongly they would resist a lower advance scenario. Yes, I get that it can mean more royalties at regular intervals, but that is a MAYBE. An advance is money in the pocket for the agent, with nothing to lose, because the black mark doesn't go on THEM. Most of them live in the most expensive city in the U.S and need to pay the billz. Of all the parties involved, they probably benefit most and risk least from high advances. Of course, a good agent will work with that the author desires, but I'm thinking it could be a hard sell from their point of view.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger John Green said...

It's true that the person who has the least to gain in the short run is the agent, who is deferring money she may never see.

This is probably why we haven't already seen more such deals (although there have been some).

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Diana Peterfreund said...

Re: the most recent footnote: Yeah, especially since I *am* writing the Unicornians trilogy. ;-)

Ish.

For me it was a matter of the fact that though it was one of the better jobs I've had, I wasn't crazy about it, and it didn't pay all that well, and certainly not as well as writing was paying.

If you have an awesome job, I imagine you might not be in a hurry to leave it for the Wild West of freelancing.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Anna Swenson said...

Thank you, Mr. Green. Very interesting and meticulous, your mathematician friend would be proud.

I agree with what you're saying, but how can I change this flaw in the book industry? I buy maybe twenty books a year, mostly from authors I want to support (and, of course, authors I know write a good book). I would MUCH rather have MT Anderson and you and all those other authors you listed making slightly more money writing...uh...deeper and more important books (I didn't want to say better) than have one questionable book series that everyone buys, like Twilight. What do you suggest readers do to break publisher's barnacle-hold on big, shiny, large-advance books?

In short: Good point, but what can we do about it?

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

fascinating John, thank you.

It seems like a very sensible idea to me, but won't there always be gratuitous pay-checks in most "entertainment" industries (to use a loose definition)? Sports, acting... In each you'll find fat paychecks over sustained, moderate, royalties. Alec Guinness apparently sacrificed a large fee upfront to later gain on royalties for Star Wars, without which sacrifice it is unlikely they could have afforded someone of his calibre in such a film. But he was the exception rather than the rule. I'm not disagreeing with you, I merely think it unlikely such a change could come about without serious canvassing and coordination from a reluctant industry.

Bekbek

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Heidi R. Kling said...

This is wonderful. And since I'm in category Not 100K up front, it makes me even happier.

Also, you know someone is writing the Unicornian series right now and creating sparkly horn icons for their blogs.

;)

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Jessica Burkhart said...

Thanks so much for posting this, John. It would have been *terrifying* to me as a debut author to take a giant advance and have the worry about earning out and getting a deal after if my debut book did not sell. I'd hate to have those numbers following me for the rest of my career.

I want to stay in this business and will write as many books as it takes to make enough to get by, honestly.

(This coming from a girl writing a bi-monthly series!) ;)

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Nancy Werlin said...

You all talk like advances and royalties comprise a zero-sum game in the writing life, and you shunt the day-job myopically off to the side, something to be gotten rid of as soon as possible. But it can be a powerful factor on your side.

I have a job, and it gives me freedom as a writer: freedom to take the time each book needs; freedom not to fret about paying the mortgage; freedom not to have to pay through the nose for health insurance; freedom not to feel like my career will rise or fall based on how well the next book does. A job makes me more powerful as a writer, and by far.

My job (technical writer, specializing in financial software) is foundational to my fiction-writing career. I've been a tech writer for 25 years, and a published YA author for 16.

Don't overlook how good and how freeing a regular job can be for the writing itself. It could be your own 20% royalty, your own huge advance.

Nancy Werlin

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think a lot of established authors (and you would be one) who have a few books under their belt and are generating at least some royalty and subrights income would jump at a 20% royalty. But I think there are a lot of authors out there who do not have the luxury of turning down ANY kind of advance, large, small, or inbetween.

Another thought on the concept of the advance. I don't see it only as a "loan" to help the author out. Risk is a two-way street. Yes, the publisher is taking a chance on the author's book, but the author is also taking a chance on the publisher. They are giving the publisher the exclusive right to take the book they have invested a great of time, money, and effort in, and trusting them to publish it well. If the publisher publishes it as a spaghetti book (throw it out there and sees if it sticks to the wall) the author doesn't get a chance to republish it. That book and opportunity are forever gone. So I see the advance as a sign of mutual risk, and mutual trust.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow! Successful discussion sparked. Well done.

I really think that smaller advances and increased royalties makes more logical sense than larger advances and smaller royalties. It seems to be more in line with the idea that you actually get paid for writing successful works. I'm not sure why it doesn't work this way already.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Carrie Ryan said...

Mary does raise an excellent point that the author is testing out the publisher as well and often when an author takes a deal (esp as a debut) they have NO idea how their book will be marketed. And while there are breakout books and sleeper hits every year, I'd wager that most often a book succeeds because of publisher support.

I think a higher royalty rate does work out for the author in the end and I'd be curious to see how the math works out for the publisher -- would they just raise the price of the book? Is there enough margin in their breakdown to give that much to the author? If it's just a matter of "paying back" the advance, then why couldn't a royalty rate escalate higher once it's paid off?

Personally, I was happy to have the advance up front because it allowed me to leave my job. I agree with Nancy that having a separate day job can bring a lot of peace and security, but I fundamentally couldn't be both a partner-track lawyer at a BigLaw firm and also try to write/promote books. In fact, just trying to juggle both made both suffer.

Getting paid monthly rather than twice a year would be pretty awesome though...

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger mbpbooks said...

Getting royalty checks two times a year is from a pre-digital age. Authors need more information about when, where, and how our books are selling (and if), especially as we take on more responsibility in marketing.

Am I missing something? Maybe I need a tutorial on how to read royalty statemetns. Why can't I find out which regions/towns like my books? Whether they sell better in educational markets, via independents, chains, or online?

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger eluper said...

Mitali: this is a topic for an entirely separate blog post. I am in 100% agreement with you.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Nancy Werlin said...

"I fundamentally couldn't be both a partner-track lawyer at a BigLaw firm and also try to write/promote books. In fact, just trying to juggle both made both suffer."

Yes, agreed. The job-writing balance works only when the job will remain mostly in its tidy little box. (Could you have theoretically made it work if you were part-time, not partner-track?)

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Gwenda said...

Great discussion, everyond.

Re:Carrie's comment. Are escalator clauses common in YA? I know plenty of people who have them in the world of adult publishing, but just realized I don't know if they are employed as much in children's/YA.

(For those who don't know, this is a clause that agents will often haggle for which stipulates an increasing royalty rate to the author at certain sales benchmarks. Most books probably never sell enough copies for it to kick in, but if they do, it can be v. good.)

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Jane said...

"Some people would rather have money, but I suspect what most authors want is longevity. (e.g., I assume that everyone would rather make $300,000 in a career that contains 30 books than $300,000 in a career that contains three books.^)"

John, you're arguing this on a personal honor system. While there are a LOT of writers who work tirelessly on their craft, let's say I'm a reality star who wants to write a book about her time on a reality show thinly disguised as a novel. There is no way I'm going to stand for those measly advances.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Carrie Ryan said...

Mitali - I couldn't agree with you more, excellent point. I think this also ties back into what John was saying about the question of a higher advance up front -- a lot of authors end up using a significant portion of their advances for marketing and publicity.

Nancy, I do think it's easier when the day job will stay in a box. There was no way my firm would let me go part time and it would have been difficult in my situation to find a firm that would.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Heidi R. Kling said...

Gwenda: Yes. I don't know how common it is, but yes that is negotiated into some YA contracts.

Also, bonuses if you win prizes such as the Printz or National Book Award or some such.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Diana Peterfreund said...

Nancy, I think you're one of the fortunate ones, like John and Jennifer Lynn Barnes, who can say "okay, my jobs are these two things (writing books and the other thing) and I'm perfectly happy doing them and if the writing disappeared I could still have my financial and health security elsewhere."

I've had the soul-sucking jobs and I've had the mind-numbing ones and I've had the ones that were both. If I had a job that I loved, I probably would have been happy writing fewer books a year and doing that wonderful, secure, all-benefits-paid job. But if I didn't, then yeah, getting rid of it, whether for writing or for something else is going to always look good. It would have looked good to find something more fulfilling even if I wasn't a writer. If I was happier waitressing than those other jobs, I'd probably be looking for a better waitressing opportunity.

Writing freelance (I freelanced for newspapers while holding other jobs ever since I graduated from college) has always been, simultaneously, the best paying and most fulfilling of my jobs. (I guess that goes to show how poorly I am prepared for the rest of the job market.) Is it any wonder that's the one I pursue with the most vigor?

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Rob (9thDoc) said...

I think the most important question is this:
Have you checked your mathimagics with official nerdfighter mathematician Daniel Biss?

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Alexandra Bracken said...

You're absolutely right on in all of this. I'm at the Columbia Publishing Course right now, and nearly every single publishing professional (especially the editors) have pointed out how these monster advances have put the the industry in a terrible financial situation. The blockbuster model seems to be a direct result of the publishers being bought and merged by these massive corporations (Hachette, for example) and the parent corporation not understanding that the book industry really can't deliver the big profits they're demanding/expect. Instead of resting on the income of their backlist titles, the corporations are pushing for more, more, more from the frontlist, which is driving publishers to take more chances and pay a much higher price for them.

Bob Miller with HarperStudio is experimenting with different advance/royalty models and I think it's going to be really interesting to watch how his titles pan out.

Anyway, anyway! Thanks for the great post!

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Sara Z. said...

Nancy W. - great point about jobs. Personally, I've had the same experience as Diana where I just haven't been able to find a job I can tolerate and also allows for the writing job. The things I'd be as passionately interested in (or at least willing to do) as writing would require me to go back to school and get a new degree, which involves a time and financial investment I'm not sure I'm willing to make. Not right now, anyway. In ten years? Possibly, depending how the rest of life is going.

Gwenda - Yes to escalators in YA contracts.

Mary P. - GREAT POINT

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Aprilynne Pike said...

Lots of really good thoughts here. But back to the mortgage metaphor, I think you have it backwards. Every author I have ever met is 100% invested in their book. It is the publisher whose investment can be measured by the size of the advance. An author will have the same equity, so to speak, no matter their advance--everyone wants to succeed and be read. But a publisher paying a high advance immediately has greater "equity."

In addition to what has already been said about day jobs, paying an author enough to quit their day job also frees them up to do more promotion (as Mandy alluded). In this way, momentum snowballs, allowing a book greater odds of success. Publishers are doubtless aware of this, or they wouldn't send authors on tour. It's not fair in that it does make things harder on "small" books, but that is not the same as small advances being better for everyone.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Karen Kincy said...

Excellent post, not boring at all. Your logic sounds good for me and my debut novel, which I'm proud to say is being published by the bad-ass but not enormous imprint Flux.

I'm going to start following your blog... not sure why I didn't earlier.

Karen

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger April Henry said...

It seems like your post starts with one argument: "Go for the lower advance for fear of not earning out," but really you are arguing that publishers should offer more in royalties.

But in my experience (8 books out, 4 more on the way, from a total of 5 houses), publishers aren't offering that kind of trade.

And having seen both signs of the coin, I know that publishers will definitely put more money out there for a book they paid more for. They are invested in making it a success. The print run will be larger, it will be talked up in sales conferences, they will feature it more prominently in the catalog, they might hire a PR firm - all things that probably won't happen for the book they paid much less for, even if it does start to show legs.

Research shows that when you give people the same medicine but tell some of those folks that it cost more, the ones who get the "more expensive" drug think it's more effective. To them, money spent = better quality. And I think publishers feel the same way.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger John Green said...

April: I'm arguing for a model that does not yet commonly exist in YA (although there are several adult imprints at big publishers doing it), but I think should exist.

As noted elsewhere in comments, if companies behave rationally, they don't care if they make their money from a book they advanced $4,000 to or a book they advanced $40,000 to. (Admittedly, they don't behave rationally.)

I agree that books that have bigger advances tend to get more publicity, but it's unclear to me whether this is due to the publisher's excitement about the book (and therefore willingness to pay more for it) or whether it's an irrational financial calculation.

(If it is a financial calculation, it is totally irrational.)

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Amanda McLoughlin said...

Thank you for this post, John. As someone who wants to go into publishing, it can be very frustrating to try to learn about an industry that seems to shy away from transparency and openness. I appreciate your simplified, approachable insight into the world of publishing.

A few questions -

1. How much control do authors have about where their books are sold?
2. Do authors make more or less profit from international sales? (One would think more, since every book sold overseas increases the publisher's market and visibility)
3. How do reprints/repackaging of books affect authors? (ie: box sets, movie covers, paperback/large print, translations)
4. What is the motivation behind two lump sums per year? Can authors see who is buying their books, where, and at what rate?
5. How do discount stores work? What does a book cost for retailers, and how much of what I pay at name-brand stores is profit for them?
6. How much does it cost to make a book?
7. Do contracts with publishers include tours/promotion on the author's part?
8. What role do agents play in this whole process?

I hope you can answer some of my questions!

Thank you in advance.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger John Green said...

Maprilynne: I'm not talking about authors' emotional investment, which I agree is total; I'm talking about their financial investment.

Authors have a tremendous financial investment in their books, but publishers have become so overextended by overbetting on titles that many of them are in danger of bankruptcy. (And most of them would be if they weren't owned by larger companies.)

And I don't really agree that publishers have higher equity in a particular title just because they paid a lot of money for it. If you buy Book A for $10,000 and Book B for $100,000, you've spent $110,000 on books.

It doesn't matter if Book A or Book B generates the $110,000 you need to break even. If Book A has the bigger shot at success, that should (rationally) be the one you market.

(I admit publishers don't always behave that way, but we shouldn't just assume that they will be permanently stupid.)

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Simplysara said...

I have very little to offer in terms of how publishers should pay royalties because I have unfortunately not yet completed my first novel. The reason I have not completed it is because until recently I was working full time and getting my BA in English (just finished) and now I just work full time. I have been working on my book, but am not in love with it yet and thus am not yet passionate enough about it to skip going to things like Depeche Mode tribute band shows. And this is the terribly convoluted introduction to my observations of this incredibly interesting conversation.

In reading the comments I can see a difference not only in the way people feel about advances and royalties, but also in the way they feel about their careers in writing. It is incredibly obvious, John, that writing is more than just a paycheck to you. You care about the quality of your writing, the intricacies of your plot and have high standards and you want your readers to not just enjoy your books but connect to and contemplate your books. Some writers (and I am not referring to any specific commenter) write because they would like to earn a paycheck by doing something that they are good at and of course they want people to buy their books and enjoy them, but their reason for choosing writing as a career is more out of logic than passion(as it appears to be with you).

To use a completely unrelated example:
I recently watched a documentary called Choke about Rickson Gracie (a Brazialian Jiu Jitsu/MMA fighter) who before his retirement in 2001 was considered to be the best in the world. The documentary focused on fighters preparing for an 8 fighter tournament in Japan, of which Rickson Gracie was the defending champion. One of the American fighters, Todd Hays, was fighting because he wanted to make enough money to finance his Olympic bobsledding career. Several of the other fighters were mainly competing for the honor of fighting in the event and the opportunity of fighting with Rickson Gracie.

When Todd Hays' shoulder was injured in his first fight, he decided continuing in the tournament and facing Rickson Gracie was not worth the risk of further injury because he would not make more any more money than he had already earned on the fight. The guy who Hays had defeated was devasted about screwing up his fight with Hays because he missed out on his chance of fighting Rickson. This guy actually did get to fight Rickson because Hays dropped out and though he lost to Rickson, in the post-fight interview he was in tears about Rickson's skill and ability and about the honor of fighting him.

Incidentally, the guy who Rickson fought in the final round had actually been permanently blinded in one eye in the first round and kept the severity of his injury a secret so that he could also have the honor of fighting against Rickson.

If the pinnacle of your life is to fight Rickson Gracie, then blindness isn't your priority but if you really want to be a bobsledder, then your shoulder is more important than punching some Brazilian dude.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there is a huge difference between people who write simply because it is the best way they know to earn a paycheck and the writer who considers it a privilege to be able to earn a living doing something they enjoy so much. You are willing (or at least this is how I perceive you) to make an initial sacrifice because you see a greater outcome for yourself from writing than solely the money but some people are writing to finance their life.


Neither of these options is any more "right" than the other, but the worthiness of risk and reward will always be different between the two sides.

(sorry this is so long. Sheesh, if only I could write so much on my novel)

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger lalibrarylady86 said...

Dear John,
Although long, this was not a boring post at all.
I did not know that royalty payments were made only twice a year, and I agree with Mitali Perkins that that type of system is archaic. She also made an especially good point in regard to pulling sales data for results. I can't believe publishing companies do not have this as part of their marketing strategy. McDonalds has been doing this for decades and online companies can tell if you want a blouse suggestion in the color red or blue based on your data history. I'm not saying writers should write books to fit a demographic, (although I have seen it done, especially in the children's market) but analyzing the data and throwing it into a GIS program can help the publishing house and author set up book tours for a start.
Thank you everyone and good luck to all – large advance or small.
Alicia

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger April Henry said...

Yeah, but if Editor A bought one book for 100,000 and Editor B bought one for $10,000, and both books sell the same number of copies - whose ass is on the line? I think Editor A will fight for more resources for Book A.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger John Green said...

April: You're absolutely right about Editor A and Editor B (and this is but one of many bad business practices within publishing houses).

But assuming that Editors A and B both have more than one book, it again becomes irrelevant. It doesn't matter if Editor A thinks his big advance book is going to sell or his small advance book is going to sell; he's going to fight for resources to be devoted to whichever books he thinks will sell, because he knows he has to justify the cost of both the big advance book and the small advance book.

What I think really happens is that almost always, editors pay more for books they think will do better, so the Venn Diagram of big advance books and books they think will sell looks pretty much like a single circle.

This is not because the expensive books need to sell well, but because the editor thinks the expensive books _will_ sell well (or at least have a better chance than the less expensive books).

But those same facts would remain true even if an author (or many authors) were to say, "Why don't you pay me less upfront?"

i.e., the Venn Diagram might change, but the editor's priorities (if he's acting rationally) wouldn't.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Kieran said...

What happens if you sign a three book deal but you've only got one in you?
And is there any time limit to when these have to be written?


Also, damn interesting!
Thanks for the insight John.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Rachel said...

I read your blog, and then read this article:

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/137/the-evolution-of-amazon.html?page=0%2C0

In the beginning it focuses on Amazon's continual struggle with publishers, but do you think that it's possible for a restructuring of the old system to happen as e-books continue to evolve? And what about Stephen King (bestseller non-YA author of course) who made a contract directly with Amazon and Kindle? Right now I doubt that any such thing can happen in the YA field, but it is interesting.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Mandy Hubbard said...

John, as I think about this further---

Do you think large advances are still a bad idea for an author with a track record? Say an author has a half-dozen books out, and the readership has steadily grown, she/he has consistently earned out and then some.

Doesn't it make sense to pay a larger advance in that case?

I mean, take you for example-- you've had very solid sales for your books. A larger advance is much less risky in your hands than an uknown debut.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Mandy Hubbard said...

Also, to Kieran: A three book deal is probably based on a pitch for a trilogy.

Two book deals are also very common, but if you're an author who doesn't feel you have a second book, you dont have to take two books. Everything is negotiable, to a point.

To get three books it would be likely that your agent had something to work with-- even just a few lines about what the 2nd/3rd book would be.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

John, well said. Another part of the question is what authors might consider doing when they are, say, “established,” meaning that they are beyond or even far beyond their first books. Some might feel more comfortable with a smaller advance, despite proven selling ability, simply to maintain the publisher/author relationship. You no longer “need” the advance money to subsist; you are interested in the long career (and let’s say here, that instead of 3 or 30 books, we’re discussing the difference between careers of 3 or 30 years). I’ve often thought: you know, let’s not be so greedy. If the public wants to read you, they will. You only shoot yourself in the foot if your book doesn’t earn out. And let’s also say (is this heresy?) that earning out is at least (at least) as much a responsibility of the publisher as it is of the author. Difficulties arise when publishers succumb to the cult of the debut author or unwisely promote mediocre material that, lacking all else, has managed to find a hook. Then the established author is tempted to say, show me the . . . you know.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Lisa Schroeder said...

I'm all for lower advances, however, the existing system of paying royalties only 2 times a year would have to change. And because the system was created long before computers were part of our lives, it would be quite possible for it to change, right?

The thing is, though, that the high advances are generally paid when there is a hot book multiple houses want. So what happens if maybe a "cap" were put out there so no advance would be over $50,000? Let's say five houses want your book and offer up $50,000. They'd have to get creative with other things they can offer up to persuade the author to come to that house, right? It would be really interesting to see what they came up with...

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm an editor, and I agree that the smaller (though perhaps not quite the difference in this scenario) advance is better for author, publisher, and definitely editor. To April Henry-absolutely, the editor's ass is more on the line with the big advance. But in this day and age, most editors don't have a say in where resources are spent-marketing will decide. Yes, if it's a $100,000 advance, there will be a bigger marketing budget on paper, but if marketing doesn't love the book, they still won't support it even if it's a 'lead' for editorail and often times marketing and sales may just decide to get behind a sleeper low budget book that didn't have the big advance. If marketing is spent on the big book and it still doesn't sell (which happens quite a lot-how many Twilights are there?), then editor/marketing/sales all considers the big book a failure and may be resentful of the author and the big advance (esp. if it's a multibook contract). Afterall, the author did well-it's the publisher who lost-spending on both advance and marketing and not seeing any returns. As a result, they may choose not to invest further in the author's next book. Same sales #s that are disappointing/seen as a failure for a 100K advance, might be seen as a success to build on with a lower advance.

There are agents I really respect and so I hate how this sounds, but for the most part, I think these kind of oversized advances are caused by agents turning everything into auctions-pushing advances past the point of reality for most books/authors. Big advances are one of the many reasons publishing is in the trouble it's in now, and that's not good for any of us.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Editor from above-forgive the typos. I'm not a copyeditor and was typing quickly!

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger John C. Ford said...

Great topic/discussion. Two thoughts:

1) You're talking about a world that could exist "if authors and editors and agents collectively decided to make it so." There's a problem with that. If a collective decision to structure royalties a certain way actually took place and involved more than one publishing house, it would almost certainly violate U.S. antitrust laws (Sherman Act Section 1). Just like two gas stations across the street from each other can't agree to charge the same price, they can't make other agreements that limit competition between them (e.g., agreeing on the terms upon which they are willing to deal with candy-bar manufacturers). An agreement on how best to balance royalties/advances would trigger create this same type of violation.

I'm assuming this point, while of possible intellectual interest (maybe?), doesn't really get to the heart of what you're saying, which is that smaller advances/larger royalty rates are better for everyone, a result that can be accomplished on a broad scale through any number of means that don't involve implicit or explicit agreement among publishers.

2) I think your argument that smaller advances/larger royalty rates are best for authors may be limited to debut writers. (And I'd be very interested in knowing what percent of "large advance" authors are first-timers -- I'm guessing it would be small, but I don't know.) A key part of your argument against big advances for authors is that a flop would negatively affect their chances to publish future books.

However, non-debut authors getting large advances are presumably getting them largely based on a strong track record of sales. That track record, it seems to me, would do much to mitigate the impact of a flop. I mean, if a Stephen King title flops (ha!), you'd certainly still have a long line of publishers willing to bet on his next outing.

These authors with strong sales histories have the leverage to negotiate alternative royalty terms into their contracts -- exciting to hear that you'll be doing just that, btw. Perhaps, as you say, small advance/big royalties is the way to go, but in the end the advance/royalty question in those cases is more about how risk-averse the already-successful author is than anything else.

For debut authors, I think your argument stands up much better. (Although I think you pass over the marketing concerns too easily there.)

In any case, this is great food for thought!

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Sara Z. said...

Simplysara: John is not altruistically throwing himself on the altar of Art, suggesting he (or anyone) make less money. He's criticizing a business model that is often irrational and doesn't always serve anyone involved very well.

Writing is more than just a paycheck for all of us - it doesn't pay very well! Even these bigger numbers we're throwing equal (annually, after taxes) less than my husband makes teaching high school, and we all know how woefully underpaid teachers are. Anyone in writing (or teaching) for the money is nuts. Also, logic is not involved, because the logical thing to do is what Nancy Werlin says in her comment: have a day job with insurance and a steady paycheck, affording yourself the chance to write without financial stress.

(Though, JG, if you want to throw yourself on the altar of Art, it will be a beautiful flame!)

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Simplysara said...

Sara Z (and John): I really shouldn't have tried to post such long commentary on only two hours of sleep and I apologize for providing such a convoluted post. I can see that I did not make my point very clear and I am going to give up now except to say that I was not trying to imply that I thought John was arguing for less compensation. I understood that he was arguing that a different system would help all writers (which I hope to actually be someday) and would hopefully be more financially rewarding.

Sorry for the confusion and ridiculousness.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Sara Z. said...

SS - nothing to apologize for! The whole system is convoluted, and as a writer it can be hard to decide how much energy you want to invest in figuring it out, advocating for change, or caring. I try to balance being smart about the business end with remembering that my primary job is to write the best books I can.

As a future author, I do think that the more you know about the business the easier it will be to transition from pre-published to post-published...

(two hours of sleep is definitely not even close to enough!)

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger April Henry said...

Hey Anonymous Editor, this bit was fascinating, " but if marketing doesn't love the book, they still won't support it even if it's a 'lead' for editorial"

I would think you guys all play for the same team - but it sounds like that's not always the case. Thanks for the insight.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Unknown said...

Wow, I am inspired by the smarts represented here. :-) I will say for what it's worth: some publishers really do spend less on advances so they can spend more on promotion. And the result is that everyone earns money. The old model, like much of the old economy, is broken. But talented people are realizing that a huge advance is not a corollary of talent.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

We do play for the same larger team-but whereas every book on 'my' list is a lead to me and I wish it were a lead to the entire house, marketing/sales is looking at the bigger picture-the entire division's list, and they can't feasibly pay attention to every book-even the books individual editors may feel very strongly about.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous foraysinflats said...

I have a somewhat unrelated question in that it is not purely economic. A publisher has, for example, a million dollar budget allocated towards advances. It has to decide either to carefully pick 10 books to offer $100,000 advances to or to select 100 books to offer $10,000 advances to. If the publisher is only choosing ten books, is the result a selection of books that are of higher quality with the added benefit that the small pool will allow the publisher to pour all its resources into promoting these select few? Or, is the $10,000 option better because it introduces more authors and topics to the market and allows publishers to take more risks? Obviously, publishers use a combination of the two, but…

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous redpanda said...

2.73 million on the second deal @250k books...

the advance was 30,000?

still a better deal, of course.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Genrefluent said...

John, for the most part I agree with you but perhaps the difference all boils down to how individual authors work best -- big money upfront to quit the day job and write or the chance to be in it for the long haul. Excessive advances do hurt in that perhaps not as many titles are picked up by publishers.

Living on royalties is a bizarre way to live. My advances are small but my publisher doesn't usually pay advances at all and they only pay out royalties once a year. Now, I do get paid twice a year because they changed the schedule so old books are paid in March and more recent books in September. Fortunately the rate is 15%. Mitali is so right in her comments "Getting royalty checks two times a year is from a pre-digital age. Authors need more information about when, where, and how our books are selling ..." and I couldn't agree more.

Because I love so many novels and have such a big reading habit, I worry that too many really great midlist authors (the bread and butter of avid readers) are squeezed out and can't make it because of the blockbuster mentality. I NEED at least 300 really good new books a year, the couple dozen blockbusters just aren't enough.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous a writer said...

April Henry wrote:

Hey Anonymous Editor, this bit was fascinating, " but if marketing doesn't love the book, they still won't support it even if it's a 'lead' for editorial" I would think you guys all play for the same team - but it sounds like that's not always the case. Thanks for the insight.

April, I used to think this way and then it happened to me. Sadly, the "big advance guarantees big marketing" argument does not always hold water. I got a big advance, and then my book got pushed aside in favor of some shiny new thing whose advance was the same as mine. Still not sure why. Editor seems to love me -- marketing most certainly does not. Don't know if it's marketing, if it's my editor's bosses, what. But I'm feeling it big time.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Ally Carter said...

I have no firm vote yay or nay on this topic, just some general thoughts.

There are many, many factors that go into all of this--from the creative and the financial/economic. I think I'd like to tackle the creative first.

Money changes things. For some writers receiving a large advance might change them for the better--freeing them up to write, giving them confidence in their talent and worth, etc. For others it might mess with them--especially assuming it's a multi-book contract and books 2 and maybe even 3 are still looming out there. Unwritten. Writing with the freedom to throw anything that sucks in the trash is vastly different from knowing that someone has already paid you for what you're writing and, oh yeah, they have to have it in six weeks and they've built the fall budget around it. (Unfortunately, most writers won't know if they can't handle this situation until they're in it.)

On the economic/financial/business front, one point that I didn't see in my quick read of the comments (apologies if I missed it) is that big deals alone can--with no additional marketing effort--generate big buzz. Almost every time you heard mention of Twilight (before it became*!*TWILIGHT*!* included the fact that it had sold for very big money. Harry Potter was a little-known British project until the US bidding war put it on the industry's radar, all before a dime was paid for co-op or tours or anything else.

But would Twilight and HP still have been HUGE megahits without the advance-based buzz and JKR and Stephenie Meyer enjoyed a higher royalty rate to boot? We don't know and we never will.

I do, however, feel certain that these examples have probably fueled this phenomenon. It's easy for people to look at them and think that their road to success started with HUGE advance (for their times) so the next megahit will probably have to start that way.

So am I for or against big advances? I guess I'll give a typical economist answer: it depends. There are books, I think, and situations where it is warranted. I think the problem is that they are thrown around a little too freely these days. Heck, a lot too freely. And some houses, frankly, appear to be more free with them than others. They're still using the spaghetti method, they're just doing it at a few hundred thousand a pop in some situations and that, I think, is the real waste here.

-Ally Carter

(ps...In the immortal words of Winston Churchill, sorry for the length of this letter. I didn't have time to write a shorter one.)

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous another writer said...

"But talented people are realizing that a huge advance is not a corollary of talent."

Here's the thing I've learned over the past few years being published in this industry: I used to think it was about art, getting great books out there, talent, et al. To a certain degree it is that way. Ultimately, though, publishing is a business. A huge advance rarely has to do with talent, but what the house can/will sell.

Look at the NYT list (especially YA right now) and you'll see a pop star and the director of a popular film. I'd argue it's not talent that put them there (or rather, talent in writing books), but platform. The publishing house knew they could sell those books.

Sometimes I think houses buy books for the talent/art (which can be risky), but more and more these days it looks like they'll buy what they can guarantee to sell (taking away some of that risk) whether it's a well written book or, more often it seems, a book with a good hook, a big blurb, or an author with a platform.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Blogger Lisa McMann said...

I have to pop in again to say that advance is NOT the only way publishers decide what books to push. They are heavily influenced by the responses of their sales team and also the retail stores -- the chains and the indies.

If major buyers really like a title that a publisher didn't pay much for, publisher is not going to ignore that title.

Also, I believe that publishers are more responsive to authors who show they are marketing their books and who dare to ask for help.

There are many factors.

 
At June 29, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

My first novel got twice the advance Alaska did, but it got -zero- marketing. Literally, they put it in the catalog and moved on.

I busted my butt to market it on my own, and it's doing well-ish for a book that has no house support. Still, I have no hope of seeing royalties for it.

If the house would guarantee me a marketing budget, I'd take a lower advance. But carving down an advance for money that might never materialize doesn't seem like a good trade to me.

Maybe once you have a record of sales, smaller advance-more royalties would work. But man, for those of us trying to get established, 15%, 20%, what difference does it make? 20% of nothing is nothing.

 
At June 30, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bottom line: most of this stuff is beyond our control. So as long as we're dreaming? My dream is to be valuable enough to my publisher that I could ignore the following:

LIBRARIANS. I don't write for them. And while I think they may be in touch with what their constituents like to check out of the library, I don't think they're gifted literary critics. Not by a long shot. Nothing is more obnoxious than a power-mad librarian with a blog.

KISSY KISSY SOCIAL NETWORKING. You might sell a lot of books, but it doesn't make me admire you.

INTERNETALLY COMMUNICATING MY EVERY BRAIN FART.

KEEPING UP ON WHO IS WRITING WHAT. Why? Because I don't read kid's books. I just write 'em.

NO MORE SILLY TEST QUESTIONS! NO HELPING TEACHERS SHOVE MY BOOK INTO THEIR... CURRICULUMS! The materials I've seen are often as stimulating as asking a kid to open a book and circle all the vowels with a red pen.

The only thing I love is writing books. When I'm writing books, I'm living the best life. It's not for me to judge whether my book will be loved when it's published. Most people will never hear of my book. Few will actually buy it because it won't stay long in the chain book stores. If things do turn out for the best, it's probably because my mars is in the tenth house on release day.

So the hell with it all. Be brave and write well and love what you do. It's where the pleasure is! By God, it's Marlborough country!

 
At June 30, 2009 , Blogger Fran Caldwell said...

Loved your post, but wondered if you would discuss print runs on first books. What's usual for a reasonable book, but not necessarily one which is expected to be a blockbuster?

 
At June 30, 2009 , Blogger Brenda said...

Very interesting post and comments. Also eye-opening because I would consider $30,000 to be a huge advance (says the author who has already sold 3 books for much less than that).

 
At June 30, 2009 , Anonymous Gay Courter said...

In my long experience with having it both ways, the larger the advance the more clout your book has in house, the more they do for you (and to recoup their investment) and the larger the sales. So it tends to be a self-fulfilling prophecy. That said, there are many examples of big advances that don't pay out and dooming the author to the bad-risk category. Further, even if the author goes for a higher royalty rate, that is eroded by all the discounts. For instance, all Amazon sales end up as NET not GROSS and at "mail order rates" which is about half bookstore sales.
By my calculations, this is usually 25% of the royalty...So 20% on a $20 book (and the 20% is unheard of, but I am using JG's example) would normally be $4.00 but the Amazon sale is $1.00. Oh, and wait...the Kindle amount is even lower figuring most Kindle books are $9.99! How about 15 cents per book? Even if you sell 100,000 Kindles, can authors live on that?

Larger advances may be the only money an author sees. Thus if the author can live on that advance, it becomes "wages." Another way of looking at it, the larger advance also creates a built-in higher royalty for the author since the standard rates--even for bestselling authors--have not changed in 50 years.
--gay courter

 
At June 30, 2009 , Blogger Sara Z. said...

To clarify JG's update and reference to my Harper Lee vs. James Patterson comment: I did NOT say that a bigger advance is more likely to produce a To Kill a Mockingbird over a Swimsuit ("It's to die for!"). I was responding to JG's comment about career longevity - "I assume that everyone would rather make $300,000 in a career that contains 30 books than $300,000 in a career that contains three books."

The need for food, shelter, and clothing aside, I'm saying that most (or at least, many) authors I know would rather have a 3-book career than a 30-book career of those 3 books were of TKaM caliber - whether one gets a 5k advance for those books or 100k or 2k and a gift certificate to the Olive Garden. So many of our iconic American authors totally depended on the kindness of strangers and patrons to survive while they wrote and did not see riches until the end of life (or after).

But then, this is kind of like the "would you rather die of the cold or burn to death?" question - it's not something we can really choose. The majority of us fall somewhere on the vast continuum between Patterson and Lee. What kind of writer one wants to be is always useful to think about though, for the writer, and try to make financial decisions that help make that happen.

Bottom line for writers (or anyone) when it comes to money: it's easier to control your spending than your income. Which means I need a Zappos and iTunes intervention...

 
At June 30, 2009 , Blogger milowent said...

i assume most books don't earn a bunch of money (if any), so if you're offered a large advance, its hard to argue with the economic decision to take it.

 
At June 30, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

In response, or perhaps as a sideline to Amy's comment about sending directly to publishers...

At a conference this weekend, I heard agents say that the best way to get an agent is through the backdoor, not the slush. The majority of their clients came in that way. I understand that, but that makes it hard for first time authors who are low on connections or don't want to annoy slight connections by asking for blurbs. What's a writer to do?

 
At June 30, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm also an editor, though different from the previous anon editor.

here's the thing. you get royalty statements twice a year not because the computer systems are outdated (though, they are), but because of returns. Publishing is pretty much the only industry left that allows the retail outlets to return stock that doesn't sell to the manufacturer.

Say you publish a novel that goes on sale Jan. 1. Bookstores take in 10,000 copies around the country in January and put it on their shelves. According to the publishers, you've sold in 10,000 copies.

But not all of those 10,000 copies go home with readers. Some stay on shelves. So come April or so, those booksellers still have 5,000 copies on their shelves. They then return the 5,000 copies to the publisher, and get their money back. (or, if it's a strippable book, they rip off the front cover, toss the rest of the book and send just the covers back to the publishers for a refund). Either way, by April, you've gone from selling 10,000 copies to selling 5,000 copies because of returns.

Now if the publisher had paid out royalties monthly, starting the Feburary, they would have already paid you royalties on selling 10,000 copies. Do you have to refund them half that money once returns come in?

Because publishing is a returnable industry, what has "sold" to a bookstore when novel first pubs can be returned to the publisher 6 months later, you need to delay the accounting accordingly.

Granted, this is not as much of a concern for true backlist titles that have already been through the sell-in/return cycle at least once.

Want to change the twice a year royalty structure? Go non-returnable. Of course anytime the publishers make noises about doing that, booksellers freak out, and those noises die down. A few accounts have gone non-returnable, and heaven knows publishers love selling to them.

 
At June 30, 2009 , Blogger Sara Z. said...

To anonymous writer low on connections: I got my agent through slush, and no connections. It still happens all the time. Don't worry about all that---worry more about making your writing as good as you can. (And remember to take everything you hear at conferences or listservs or wherever with a grain of salt, unless you hear it repeatedly from reliable sources.)

 
At June 30, 2009 , Anonymous joelle said...

I couldn't read all the comments because I need to be writing, but I read about 2/3 of them. I am relatively new to this, my first novel doesn't come out until next summer, but I did want to comment on publishers' commitments. From what I do know, I think that they get behind books that they paid small advances for too. If they really believe in it, then it can become what they call a make-book (I think that's the term). This was explained to me as a book they didn't pay much for but feel they can MAKE a lot of money off of, so they get right behind it.

Also, to Anonymous - Sara Z and I have the same agent and I too got found in the slush (by more than one agent, although I chose the BEST one!). Just stay after it. Connections will only get you so far. It's your writing that will find you an agent.

 
At June 30, 2009 , Anonymous Alex Flinn said...

Good post! I personally find large advances frightening. They're definitely going to blame the author if the book doesn't earn out, and besides, I like royalties. It's like a retirement account. I've never pushed for higher advances for these reasons. I think I probably am overly cautious, though. I also won't spend the money for multi-book advances until I've written the book.

That said, I do think publishers are more apt to promote stuff they paid more for. As someone who has never been promoted in the slightest by her publisher, that appeals to me. The problem is that promotion is a self-fulfilling prophecy. When one galley says, "100,000 copy first printing, 5-city tour, advertisements in USA Today, Publisher's Weekly, and Seventeen" while another galley says, "Promotion on publisher's website, local author signings" (or nothing at all), I can't help but think that reviewers tend to assume that the first book is THE GREATEST BOOK IN THE WORLD, while the second book may not even get read.

In any case, it would be a high-class problem -- which are the best kind to have.

 
At June 30, 2009 , Blogger Greg Pincus said...

Who among the authors here would turn down a deal with a good advance knowing that if you say "no" then the whole deal might die, your book doesn't get published, and you get bupkis?

That's always been the challenge to changing the system (even for us screenwriters who bargain collectively!). What's exciting and may cause all us publishing players to work together is the fact that distribution, particularly digitally, is becoming less and less of an obstacle.

We authors own our work - so we can work with smaller, more limber presses (or even self-publish) in exchange for better deals. Every day those become more viable options, though they'll exist right alongside traditional publishing.

This article in Fast Company, Amazon Taps Its Inner Apple hints at ways the balance of power might change. But ultimately, it'll be up to writers knowing what they want, being brave enough to insist on it, and having backup plans in place if they don't get it!

 
At June 30, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

To anon w/ no connections: Just wanted to add my name as one who got plucked from the slush. I'd never met my agent (still haven't) and did not have a reference. It happens.

Regarding the bonus clause for awards: As I understand it, it's not really a bonus but just another advance that goes against royalties.

Thanks for the lively discussion!

 
At June 30, 2009 , Blogger Joni said...

With all due respect to the editors who have posted here, I think the bottom line in all of this is that publishers (and their holding companies) do NOT behave rationally. Anyone with day-job experience in functioning corporations can see any number of standard practices in this industry that are insane from a business management standpoint. Returns is one. Producing more products than you have reasonable marketing budgets for is another. (There's a reason Coke doesn't introduce 45 new flavors each year.) The willingness of publishers to share information such as regional sales data with their business partners, the authors, is another.

A business truth that WILL apply, though, is that change only happens when things get desperate enough to make it seem easier than the alternative. And that will probably mean some (more) high-profile bankruptcies and closures, unfortunately.

In the meantime, I like John's idea and hope more established authors will try to nudge that direction. I don't think debut authors, or mid-listers without clout, have any chance of impacting the system.

 
At June 30, 2009 , Blogger MarPerez said...

Why can't we be passionate about our art AND expect a decent paycheck? I have four kids to put through college, a mortgage, several high maintenance pets, a husband that I would like to spend time with, and a day job. I carve out time to write, time that is always a precious commodity.

A bigger advance would allow me to quit the day job and focus on writing full-time, which fulfills me in a way that the day job never can.

And if you split that big advance (say 100K) into a typical payment schedule, you're looking at a best case scenario of two payments of around 50K less agent's commission. And it can be over a year between those payments, which means your "salary" is about 50K a year. Not bad, but not exactly rolling in the clover either.



When I see a "significant deal" announced in Publishers Marketplace, I don't bemoan it. I celebrate it.

A talented and lovely author friend died several years ago because of a lack of decent health care. Health care is a costly issue for many authors. A healthy advance could allow authors without coverage to obtain decent health care.

 
At June 30, 2009 , Anonymous Gavin said...

From another editor: a 20% royalty isn't possible if the books are sold at a high discount. If your books are sold online and the website is receiving a 60% discount, that 20% royalty would leave 20% for the publisher to this for your book: edit, proof, design, print, ship, warehouse, publicize, market, accept returns, ship, warehouse, market, and do the accounts that pay the author.

If the book is sold to a bookshop at a 40-50% discount, a higher royalty rate may be possible but while books are sold at 30% off retail, there isn't space to increase the royalties.

 
At June 30, 2009 , Blogger Jennifer Lynn Barnes said...

~Really Long & Boring Comment on Economic Rationality~

On the topic of people/businesses behaving rationally versus irrationally, I think that ANY argument which has a basis in economic rationality, even a hypothetical, is being awfully optimistic. People, in general, AREN'T economic rationalists across the board. There's forty or fifty years of research out there about all the funny irrationalities that humans tend toward in economic situations. Some of them are thought to be cross-cultural universals; some even exist across species!

Take the editor who buys one book for 10k and one for a 100k, and the suggestion that rationally, from the editor's perspective, it shouldn't matter which book earns lots of money, so long as one of them does. That does seem perfectly rational- but there's tons of evidence to suggest that people generally don't view these kinds of situations rationally. People tend to be fairly strongly loss averse, which means that they evaluate a loss of X as more negative than they positively evaluate an equivalent gain. In other words, subjectively, losses tend to feel worse than gains are good. Reference points and framing effects also matter- coming in a $1000 under a 1.2 million goal isn't going to be equivalent to coming in a $1000 under a $2000 goal, even though both represent losses of a thousand dollars. And then there's all kinds of crazy phenomena like the endowment effect (you value things you own more than equivalent things you don't, even if they are rationally equivalent) and cognitive dissonance (which can sometimes involve things like effort justification, meaning that the harder you work to obtain something, the more positively you evaluate it, even in cases where the work is not motivated by the quality of the end product).

None of this is my area of expertise, and I've probably made about a zillion mistakes trying to summarize it (and I'm sure there are dissenting opinions within the field, too), but the general gist I've taken home from every behavioral economics talk I've ever sat through was that when you apply economic models which assume rationality to real people, you often get into trouble- because people, on the whole, don't tend to be all that rational. And since businesses are run by people, I think any "assume they're behaving rationally" argument is actually assuming a LOT.

None of which has anything to do with the larger topic at hand (large advances)... though now that I think about it, another one of the weird economic irrationalities that behavioral researchers tend to find centers on temporal discounting, which basically means that for most people, future costs and future benefits aren't analyzed as if they're equivalent to present costs and benefits. As irrational as it is, $10 now may be subjectively worth more than $10 later...which might mean that some people could legitimately prefer a smaller ultimate pay-out in favor of not having to wait as long to get it.

 
At June 30, 2009 , Anonymous John R. said...

There's another side to the advances though. Part of it is that the author has still made money even if the publisher does something terrible with their book. For example, say The Unicornians ends up with a terrible cover, one that gives no hint as to the Unicorn filled joy inside. Buyers won't be as interested, sales would suffer.

Or what if there's a new guy in marketing, and he looks at the book and thinks "hey, maybe we should make this the first Unicorn, love triangle book that taps the teenage boy market? We can make it look like the next Eragon!" This probably wouldn't be a good choice, because most teenage boys (at least that I know) aren't interested in Unicorn-boys or love triangles.

In both cases, the author has little to not input into what is done with the book, but both choices would effect sales. Should an author opt for the $30,000 advance, they may see very little additional income. Should the opt for the larger, they don't pay for the publishers mistake.

Of course, these are extreme examples, but things like this do happen.

 
At June 30, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Editor/author weighing in on 'why can't we expect a decent paycheck'. As an editor, I would definitely like a decent paycheck-unfortunately not the reality for most of us either. Wearing my author hat though-I'm working with a completely different model. Authors don't get salaries, and I'm okay with advances being relatively low because we have roylaties (which editors don't have). Why should the publisher take all the risk? If the book does well, then I'll get paid well. If not, well that's disappointing, but fair. The publisher won't be raking in the profits either, why should I?

 
At June 30, 2009 , Blogger Stephanie said...

Wow, this is such a great debate. I teeter between both sides. After a decade of writing picture books,all with paltry or no advances (seriously, two of my books had $0 advances) but immediate and consistent, sometimes very pleasant royalties, I now also write YA. To me, the advance was a huge improvement over my previous ones, but I have never had to face the "earning out" before. And it's weird. I loved getting chunks of $ for the audiobook advance here, the foreign rights advances there, etc., but I really don't like knowing that come October and April, I might not be getting checks like I do for my picture books. I would like this career to last a long time. But if a magic man said, "You can either a) sell a book for a million dollars, but it will be the last book you ever write
or
b) you will write thirty more books, but there's no guarantee you will ever make a dime"

I'm not sure what I'd do. As the wife of a federal employee and mother of two teens who have to go to college soon, I might have to lean on the side of "a bird in the hand..."

 
At June 30, 2009 , Anonymous Elizabeth Law said...

How can a publisher afford the 20% royalty in the first place? We make less than 10% profit on most books, so we would (and I am not exaggerating) be publishing at a loss. I'm not exaggerating, and I think that's a flaw in your argument right there. Unless you can explain?

 
At July 01, 2009 , Anonymous Lourdes said...

My head hurts in a good way after reading all the above comments. I started reading John's post and became instantly saddened. It's all about the money: advances, royalities, et cetera. I have wanted to write a book since reading GOF because I wanted others to feel what I felt after experiencing the Yule Ball and seeing Voldie crawl out of a cauldron. Even now, I am an English major and people ask me what I am going to do with that. When I mention that I may go to med school they always say: you should do that it pays more instead of going to grad school for English. No one has ever told me: ooo, you get to help people and make a difference. I have never heard that comment and it has always bothered me. Writing should be about spreading knowledge to the world. It should be about showing people that they are not alone. YA books have done this for me and no amount of money can or will equate. If you need a day job to follow your passion then do it. If you do not, that's great too. In my mind an advance is an safety net. A mark that needs to be reached and if it is fantastic, if not oo well at least I wrote something I am proud of. I would not be the person I am now without the books I have read and for some reason I want see how the other side feels. I want to write and tap kid's knee caps because I want to help and change the world not because of the cash. The latter (I know I am being a complete idealist here) should be a footnote.

 
At July 01, 2009 , Blogger taltebrando said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

 
At July 01, 2009 , Blogger Maggie Stiefvater said...

First of all, holy cow. To the anon who wrote: "KEEPING UP ON WHO IS WRITING WHAT. Why? Because I don't read kid's books. I just write 'em." just WOW. Kindly step away from my industry.

Second of all, I'm one of those that got more than $30K for my lead title with Scholastic. Far more. And to second and third and fourth what many authors said there: thank goodness. Because I had a day job -- I was a full time artist -- but I also have two kids under five. There was no way that I could keep working 60 hours a week to do portrait art, keep my kids from burning down the house, and revise, edit, market, and travel for SHIVER.

Third of all, I have an unusual perspective on this because I have two books coming out this fall. One is the mega-bucks publisher-backed super-lead and one is the small-advance lead at a mid-sized house. Same author. Same quality of writing. One is all over the web right now; my inbox is full of emails from booksellers about it. The other is floating quietly, waiting to be loved.

I can see first hand just how much thousands of review copies and marketing and push can affect a books pre-pub career, and so I can indeed verify that the having the marketing might of a big publisher behind you is a terrifying and amazing thing. And unfortunately, right now, that marketing push dances hand in hand with a big advance.

Personally, now that I'm to a stable place where I am working full time, I'd be more content with smaller advances with guaranteed marketing budgets, because of the steam generated by the first one. But for that debut? Oh man, I would be so hard pressed to say that I would've taken that smaller advance with better royalties -- it would have been physically impossible for Book 2 to happen. So . . . I dunno where I sit.

In my ideal world, though, there are no returns. Definitely no returns.

 
At July 01, 2009 , Blogger John Green said...

Big advances do not lead to big marketing budgets. (At least it's not rational to make that connection.) See the newest post here.

I absolutely agree that there is a very strong correlation. It's just not a causal correlation.

 
At July 01, 2009 , Blogger Alex Day said...

This is really interesting to me from a DFTBA perspective. This kind of insight is really useful undoubtedly to Alan but also to me about how to approach the industry in the right way and get the most out of any deal that I might have one day.

Also, one year during nanowrimo I just know I'll be fresh out of ideas and will end up writing the Unicornians book. I hope I don't, but I fear I might. (That said, I've always respected Stephanie Meyer and others for being able to reinvent such an old and established idea as the vampire and tell the story in a new way, in the same way Rowling reinvented the idea of the wizard. Though admittedly, Rowling did it better.)

 
At July 01, 2009 , Anonymous Kaleb Nation said...

I've found (through speaking with other writers) that sometimes it is better to accept a smaller advance based on the publisher's record. My publisher, an independent house, is not known for large author advances, but is renowned for big marketing and publicity budgets. As it was explained to me, the traditional idea that a bigger advance means more marketing doesn't usually fit with indie houses. By paying out a smaller advance to their authors, independent publishers can turn the extra money around into marketing and making the book successful -- which to me seems far more important, because royalties on a successful book can far exceed even a large advance.

 
At July 02, 2009 , Blogger Sean McManus said...

This is an interesting post, but I'm not sure I can agree that authors should move to royalties over advances.

The author is the only person in book creation and retailing who isn't salaried, so it would seem unreasonable for the author to be the only person bearing financial risk here. Ok, so the publisher as a whole is bearing risk. But the editors, designers etc are all getting paid. Why should be author take a gamble on the publisher being able to sell in large quantities? Let's not forget that without the author, there is no book. You can't just get somebody else to write a Douglas Adams novel.

(As an aside, authors might be paid royalties 18 months after the first book sale, whereas everyone else is getting paid monthly).

In your scenario where the publisher makes a modest profit, I'm not certain they'd come back for a second book. They might be more inclined to gamble on an unproven writer who could turn out to be a blockbuster, than an author whose first book did 'kinda okay'.

Every contract is different, but the advance and royalties shouldn't be traded off against each other. The advance makes it possible for the author to create the book, and recognises the opportunity and product they're licensing the publisher to sell. The royalties enable the author to share in the book's success.

 
At July 02, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

All I want to say is...hey where can I get the book about the Unicornians?

 
At July 03, 2009 , Blogger Athena Grayson said...

To folks here paying attention to advances, royalties, et al. Please be aware that in traditional publishing houses, your electronic edition royalties are usually pretty far below e-publishing industry standard of 35-50%.

Even if you see very few electronic edition sales now--so it's really not a sticking point with you now, it will be. Even if you are sure that ebooks are *not* going to explode any day now, it still behooves you to negotiate for higher e-rights because even if you only ever sell five electronic copies of your book, your publisher can technically keep your book "in print" forever by having those e-copies available, so you may never be able to renegotiate those rights, get that book back, or make a new life for it in some other manner because that dusty old "buy" link is still up there on Kindle or Fictionwise.

And when the ebook explosion does happen, you don't want to be part of the precedent that says it's okay for authors to get criminally low royalties when epubs and indie houses are giving 35% and up.

Awesome post and awesome comments. Thanks for this!

 
At July 04, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

The ONLY way your new proposed system of paying more for less advance would work is if publishers changed the timing of their payments.

If an author were banking on royalties rather than advance, then it is absurd for the publisher to hold royalty payments to only twice a year. Once a quarter the author could be cut a check, and all the arcane mathematics would need to be cut away.

The arcane mathmatics that allow a publisher to hold back payments almost indefinitly.


Someone else may have covered this, but to be honest, I did not check to see. lol

 
At July 06, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm just really surprised you wrote about this and excluded how agents impact/help perpetuate the current (faulty)system.

As a writer, in most cases I must have an agent to be considered by/published with those who could even offer these huge advances.(And though I've been hearing forever how agents are worth more than their 15%-they will get me a much better deal than I could get without one--I'll never really know if this is true, will I?)

My agent wants a big advance. There's no bad for him in this scenario. The man has bills and mouths to feed, after all. And though he has said I should be prepared for a smaller adv due to the economy, he's still going to try and get me the biggest smallest advance he can manage.

Now, if the big pubs are going to insist on no slush and using agents as gatekeepers AND then would offer low advances/higher royalties...how are you going to get agents onboard? Because I'm not seeing it.

 
At July 13, 2009 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah. Right.

A big advance is a fire under your publisher's backside to get those copies out there and actually support you.

A small advance is career suicide.

 
At August 20, 2009 , Blogger Lloyd L. Corricelli said...

This advice only applies when dealing with a big publisher because there is no way a small independent publisher can afford a 10% royalty on retail price.

The big publisher's printing rates are much cheaper than what we pay because they get huge bulk deals.

Here's an example of what your average small publisher is facing:

- Retail Price $16.00
- 55% discount to retailers leaves: $7.20
- $5 per book to print
- Leaves $2.20 NET for the publisher
- Subtract 10% retail - $1.60
- .60 per book sold for the publisher
- Now subtract editing, cover artwork, proofreading, cost for ISBN number and publicity
- Publisher now is printing at a loss...

 

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