Teachers Are More Famous Than Celebrities
I would like to take a moment to thank the young people of America (and the rest of the world) for your thoughtful responses to my question from last week (why do you all want to be so famous?). I am again struck by the facts that A. the young people of America (and the rest of the world) are smarter and more interesting than is generally acknowledged, and also B. I have better readers than any of the other authors (yes, Maureen Johnson. Even you).
So now that you have all dealt with the topic so subtly and thoughtfully in comments, I will now unfairly simplify your answers into several dubiously selected categories.
Why the Young People of the World Want to Be Famous, According to the Young People of the World (as overly simplified by former young person John Green)
1. I want to be remembered after I am gone/make an impact on the world.
This seemed to be the most common response, and fair enough. The problem here, to be frank, is that you will not be remembered after you are gone, at least not for very long. Also, celebrity seems a poor way to maximize your remembered-time. Like, let us compare a hypothetical 40-year-old high school teacher with Puck from the Real World San Francisco:
Let's assume they'll both live for 80 years. The teacher retires at 65. When she dies, her last five classes will be between the ages of 32 and 37. Many of those students will remember her for their entire lives; some will even tell stories about her to their children. So it's reasonable to assume that a fair number of non-relatives will remember the teacher (fondly, no less!) for at least 50 years after her death, giving her a total 'lifespan' of 130 years.
Now, let's look at Puck. Most members of the youth of America are saying right now, "Who is Puck? The Real World had a season in San Francisco? John Green is so old." Now, I will admit that Puck is likely to be remembered, in at least a hazy way, by many people of my generation and perhaps even those born ten years after me. But by the time Puck is 65, no one under the age of 40 will have the slightest clue who he is. Awareness of Puck outside of direct descendants and possibly one or two future scholars of reality television has a very low chance of lasting more than 100 years.
So basically, if you want to be remembered, you are far better off teaching than being on television. (You are also probably better off teaching than writing novels, also; for a rigorous analysis I would have to call on the assistance of Brotherhood 2.0 Resident Mathematician Daniel Biss.)
But look, regardless, time is going to swallow you up. (This is the theme of Katherines.) That's a hard thing to accept but sort of inevitable.
2. You can make a bigger impact when you are famous.
I would strenuously argue that this is not, in fact, true. Like, here is an example: An overwhelming percentage of famous people in America wanted John Kerry to be elected President in 2004. And in the end, I think their support of Kerry either had no impact, or else it had a slightly negative impact.
(I will admit that famous people can make an impact on a lot of people, just because they have the ear of a lot of people, whereas non-celebrities can't. But because of the lack of intimacy, the impact is generally pretty small and passes quickly.)
3. John, you clearly want to be/are famous. Why don't YOU explain it?
For the record, I'm not famous and don't want to be. But I have always cared too much about doing work that gets recognized, and about people liking that work. For me, it is an extension of having always wanted people to like me, and to approve of me, and not make fun of me, and not pick me last for flag football, and not call me names. I came to the conclusion when I was, like, eight that while no one would ever like me, I might conceivably make something that people would like. Hence the writing. And the vlogging.
The reasoning behind all that is foolishness, of course--but it's a powerful foolishness.
29 Comments:
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A few brief points on your response:
I am again struck by the facts that A. the young people of America (and the rest of the world) are smarter and more interesting than is generally acknowledged...
I think it's fair to say that the so-called "blogosphere" is indeed among the intellectual elite if not the intellectual illuminati, at that.
Now, let's look at Puck.
I certainly agree with you about the insignificance of Puck, however, his fame is, more or less (more), meritless (though I'll at least be generous enough to credit his choice of nickname). The fame desired by American youth is, unfortunately, a kind without merit, driven by and strengthening America's slide toward Aristocracy (Paris Hilton). In a strange sense, WhatTheBuck and SxePhil play a small role in this without even consciously realizing it.
But let's use Bono, a.k.a., Paul Hewsson, as a counterpoint, which brings me to your next argument:
I would strenuously argue that this is not, in fact, true. Like, here is an example: An overwhelming percentage of famous people in America wanted John Kerry to be elected President in 2004. And in the end, I think their support of Kerry either had no impact, or else it had a slightly negative impact.
Again--what kind of fame, and a bigger impact relative to who or what? The President has a big impact. Cindy Sheehan, is, arguably famous and has arguably had an impact. Jacob Coxey and his Army--typically written in the history books--were considered crazy when they marched on the capital in in 1894 and 1914, and yet their ideas lived on in FDR's New Deal. So again--you're only really talking about meritless, instantaneous fame that happens necessarily in one's own lifetime. For non-politicians who have had an impact, just go to the classics. They're all over. Voltaire stands out, especially.
I think there needs to be a clearer line between being famous and being a celebrity. Because, I think Einstein is famous but I don't think I'd call him a celebrity. Also, I think we (meaning a lot of people in the world) expect fame as a reward for an achievement of some sort. Therefore, by being famous, we have accomplished something with our lives. Unfortunately, this expectation also collides with our sense of immediate gratification and I think THAT is the core problem.
By becoming famous as a child/teen, it adds a sort of grander image to teh fame because "wow, he's became famous at so young! Several adults I know couldn't have done that!" People like to be amazed by youth (which is dumb if you ask me) and the youth like to provide that amazement.
Lastly, I think your argument about just wanting to be liked is the root of it all. We all want to be approved of and widescale fame represents proof that we are liked by many.
This comment won't be as thoughtful as others, but I was just in Hollywood, and I have something to say about how famous you are.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j257/tehshelli/California/IMG_0828.jpg
You're clearly more famous than you think. :)
Often famous people do have the upper hand on making the world a better place. Celebrities can use their money and their fame to draw attention to certain causes. Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt are a perfect example of that. People want to see what their twins look like? That's 20 million (or whatever the gigantic amount) that goes straight toward feeding starving kids.
And on a smaller scale, look what good you and Hank did just because people liked you guys and thought you were funny. You may not be "famous" in all circles, but you do have influence over people.
The responsibility of celebrity is a whole other topic, one you may want to explore sometime.
I would totally pick you first in flag football (in the unlikely situation that both you and I were in a game of flag football, and I was picking teams), so you've done well there!
Okay John, get ready for a response.
1. I would argue that many young people want to become famous in a more valid way than Puck, for something more than being on reality TV. There are of course many who want fame and money no matter what, but there are plenty of people who just want to be heard and make a difference. So often as teenagers we are not heard out, and I think that really has something to do with our desire to be known.
2. I believe that famous people can make a bigger impact. You reach many more people when you are well-known, and even if it is not a deep impact on most people, some will listen. I think young people especially look up to famous people's opinions, and that may have an impact on our wanting to be famous.
3. John, you definitely are not a celebrity, but you are famous to some people. Most of the world has no idea who you are, but you are adored by nerdfighters. Really, you are. I think that having a smaller audience who values you rather than a larger audience who doesn't care about you makes your views truly heard by many more ears.
For me, it is an extension of having always wanted people to like me, and to approve of me, and not make fun of me, and not pick me last for flag football, and not call me names.
I think this is my goal too. I just want people to like me, and to acknowledge that they like me. I hate always being the one who introduces myself, sticks myself out there; I just want other to want to be friends with me, once in a while for them to initiate the "Hey, I think you're interesting; I'm gonna friend/follow/subscribe/whatever you."
I hope that made sense.
I think that the biggest incentive for people to "become famous" is not the number of people they impact, or the duration of this impact but rather the vast number of places in the country/world that they can affect, however much. Incidentally, I have no idea who the heck Puck is because Real World is something they don't show in the UK but refer to in all the US chick flicks, resulting in confusion for this little Brit over here.
In addition, I have to sort of agree with Elena's comment that we just want to be heard. There seem to be many in the British government (can't really speak for the USA, as I don't know enough about it) who are happy to continue stereotyping youths as hoodies who shank grannies and feel like our opinion isn't worth listening to. Sometimes I think people want to be famous here specifically to have that sort of impact on the political system but as with Kerry, no young famous person has such an impact, to my knowledge at least. Even if it were so, the tabloid junkie culture would mean such opinions would go unnoticed.
I think I had a point somewhere and I lost it. It was something along the lines of lack of attention of youths in the UK other than as "dirty criminals" means that more and more young people strive to be in the public eye to become noticed, and then mentally get lost in the glamour & romanticised idea of fame. The solution IMO is voting at 16, whacking a few people around the head and better political education.
Right, my point is non-existent, but I also wanted to say that I love teachers. I've had two teachers who definitely changed my life and another four or five who I hope I will never forget. While Jo Rowling, for example, and David Tennant have had an impact on my life, it's perhaps in a less deep (but I wouldn't necessarily say shallow or superficial) way because I don't actually know them, I only know them by way of their respective arts.
TO CONCLUDE: Teachers are more famous than celebrities, that's the way it has always been (see Aristotle/Plato/Socrates etc.) and should always stay. It would be a sad world if celebrities were to take over as people who have the strongest and most lasting impact on the lives of the masses.
As a teacher who decided against commenting on your last entry, I'll say thanks for the vote of confidence. Thanks for the blog, interesting thoughts abound.
Another reason to be famous is to meet other famous people. Most teenagers fall in love with some celebrity at one point, even though they don't know much about them or who they really are. Our celeb-obsessed society makes us think that in order to be sucessful people should know your name and that we should want to meet/ befriend celebs and in turn become famous.
All of this talk about fame and the need to be remembered after we're gone reminded me of Walt Whitman's poem "When I Read the Book." The poem really touches on all of these questions of fame in the here and now, and being remembered/misremembered once you die.
Great couple of blogs, John.
Yeah, but through the things that you create people learn to like you as well. Or at least they think that they do. I mean tons of people talk about what an awesome guy you are even if they've never met you. So you are mildly famou to the people who know you and read your books and watch you on youtube. Those people would see you on the street and be like "Hey look it's John Green" And either go up and talk to you, or decide not to bother you, or be too shy or whatever.
Ok I don't really know where I'm going with this, but I think you are sort of famous. An I think it's awesome that teachers are more famous than Puck.
I think you're reason is the closest to the real reason we wily teens want to be famous. We want to be liked. We want people to hear our disenfranchised, under-appreciated voices. We want to know that when we comment on a blog, it will be taken seriously. Lol.
As for point number one, have you had the pleasure of reading The Brief History of the Dead by Kevin Brockmeier? I think it illustrates this point beautifully.
As for number three, well, I know just what you mean.
"I think it's fair to say that the so-called "blogosphere" is indeed among the intellectual elite if not the intellectual illuminati, at that."
That statement scares the jebesus out of me. I mean, there are some smart people in the blogosphere, but if, in general, the blogosphere represents our intellectual elite, no wonder we are in so much trouble.
I love teachers. I have such a respect for what they do and the time and effort they put into their jobs. Good teachers can have a similiar impact to good parents; I know that may sound terrible to many parents, but you can't underestimate the impact of a positive education.
I grew up with two working parents. I saw my elementary teachers from 9 - 4 every day (around that) for most of the year. I saw my parents before and after school, so for about six waking hours during the week. That means that they were my main source of love, support, affection and sustainence, I was receiving learning and new information mainly from my educators. My teacher spent most of the time not watching television, not doing paperwork, not making dinner, but actually teaching and interacting with me. When you have a good teacher, not only does it set you up to enjoy learning for the rest of your life, but they help you to grow. I owe a lot to several teachers in my past and they deserve far more thanks than I've ever given them.
When you posted the last vlog I was going to say what you concluded. I think that the reason why everybody wants to be famous, or at least I would, is to be aknowledged and be recognized for their work. And it depends on how good you are at what you do that you will be remembered. Like Puck, whom I guess was fairly entertaning but not really, and that is why his fame didn't lasted that much.
Ps.- I hope you understand this 'cause english isn't really my forte.
Dear John,
While I feel that the youth's desire to become "famous" or a "celebrity" are not always sensible, I do think that every human being has an innate desire to be remembered and often, people believe that being famous would allow them to be remembered eg. Marilyn Monroe or Audrey Hepburn. People all around the world know about them (and I can state that from personal experience,having lived in 3 countries). I admit, they will eventually be forgotten, but for a while they experience being known, recognised and idolised. I doubt anybody would say no to that.
And I agree. Teachers are more famous than celebrities in the long run, but authors and scientists are even more so! We still remember and admire Shakespeare, and still marvel at the genius of Einstein. (I'm not enitrely sure what I'm trying to express here...) In the end, I suppose we do want to have impacted the world and other people, in some way or another, and we just want to die with that feeling that we did influence people beyond our families.
(I hope that made sense and wasn't purely an incoherent ramble.)
Oh also, I disagree when you said that you are not famous. You and Hank introduced us to Nerdfighteria , both of you continue to inspire and influence the thousand viewers who appreciate what you do. You encouraged your viewers to try and decrease World Suck, and as insignificant it may be, everybody did make some difference. I remember when you talked about how there's no "Us" or "Them", we're all humans and we tend to forget that. We forget that just like us they (umm...we?) feel self-conscious too and we need to remember that. So thank you John Green!
1. Great point about teachers being remembered and, even more so, mattering to people more than celebrities. As the old saying goes, fame is fleeting. Think of Jack Paar, Walter Winchell, Richard Halliburton.
Or here’s a scary one – how many of us can name our own great-grandparents? Where they lived and what they did for work and what they were like? They’re gone. They helped create us, their very genes are in us, but we haven’t a clue who they were – just a box of old photos we can’t place any names to. And the same it will be for us.
So out of 6.6 billion people, how can one possibly be remembered? By those you meet every day – those whose lives you influence with just a kind word. I remember an old man giving me a ride once, and I've never forgotten how he went out of his way when I needed someone to be there, so that I've tried to be there for others in turn. As Mother Teresa put it, “Kind words can be short and easy to speak but their echoes are truly endless.”
Finally, for one more thought on the transience of life, there’s this by Stirling Silliphant, an Oscar-winning screenwriter and producer that few remember today: “If anything, all these reverses may have impelled me more toward Buddhism and the certainty that everything - I mean everything - is transient and that to arrive at any state of even comparative happiness you have to open your hands and let go of whatever it is you've been clutching. Because whether you let it go willingly or are forced to, whatever you're holding is already moving away from you. If you let this certainty trouble you, you have a problem. If you accept it as the basis of all existence you can actually be calmed by the loss of people and things.”
2. Reaching people is the whole idea if you want to teach. Pete Seeger hated being a celebrity, but he knew music would reach further than speeches. And Bono’s campaign of ending world debt certainly rode on his celebrity opening doors (though it needed his intelligence, drive, compassion, and diplomacy to truly get it moving). In the same way, while Mr. Rogers would’ve been a great Presbyterian priest in Pittsburgh, just as he was, by using television he was able to reach entire generations of children in a very intimate way.
3. That’s a heck of an honest answer, and exactly what many comics like Chris Rock say – that getting people to laugh was the only way they could get people not to beat up on them. It was their ticket to being part of a world that would exclude them without it.
And hey, luca, your English is better than most of those with English as a first and only language.
I love that you used Puck as a celebrity reference. So funny.
I'd like to add one more thought to the being-famous pot.
Connecting and communicating with others. I've only recently begun to blog and interact with lots of strangers/Nerdfighters online. When one of my NF friends commented on my blog and pointed out how it made her feel I felt this zing.
Now I know that this is a much smaller and slightly odd comparison to being very famous, but there is this wonderful feeling that you're putting yourself out there for the world to see. Getting a response from that can really warm the soul. To know that you've communicated and expressed yourself to someone else who might never have seen that side of you is quite amazing. And definitely something I would like more of in my life.
I hope that made sense, it is 2 in the morning here.
Hmmm. I wonder if #3 isn't part of what has led a number of us into writing. Aside from the fact that we aren't great at say sculpting, or engineering, or brain surgery.
Actually, John, I am a teenager and I don't want to be famous. Never have, probably never will. I just want to do meaningful work--which is why I want to be a doctor. Fame would be far too much pressure. Why would someone want to be followed everywhere they go, criticized for their every mistake, and judged unfairly?
See, just the idea of "one or two future scholars of reality television" kind of scares me. Decades from now, when they're studying this time period, through the lens of reality TV (especially the MTV version), what kind of conclusions are they going to draw about our society?
my explanation didn't get a category.
:-(
"the chicks, the chicks, the chicks."
you see, that was actually a reference to the biological imperative to reproduce and conquer. puck may have been a truly warped example of that imperative, but so it goes ...
I hate to break it to you John (as the other 26 comments which came before me did), but you are famous.
Not a celebritity, but definitely famous. If you remain in doubt aboout this, Google yourself... go on, nobody will know. ;)
My father taught high school, and later college, for thirty years or so. In my youth, when we still lived near the college where he'd taught, I met a lot of former students who said nice things about him. Nowadays, thanks to the marvels of the internet and the fact that I have a website that mentions him, I get emails from people several times a year that say, "Your dad was the best teacher I ever had, and I was just thinking about him and typed his name into Google and found you, so I thought I'd tell you."
I tend to believe that we mostly can't do big things--we can't end hunger or poverty or war, at least not all at once, or on our own--but we can do small things with great care, and those tend to stick with people.
After reading this blog post, I think you resemble Dumbledore in some ways. For example, you said you didn't want to be famous, and Dumbledore would never accept the role of Minister of Magic. Of course, [spoiler for the one person who hasn't read Deathly Hallows yet] we find out that he doesn't want that kind of recognition because he'll abuse it, so John Green, do you have a secret sister whose death you are responsible for?
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